In search for the best les paul

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by Niilopi, Nov 21, 2017.

  1. brokentoeswalker

    brokentoeswalker Senior Member

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    Expand your horizons, does it have to say Gibson on the headstock or will you feel unworthy ?? Plenty of manufacturers making LP shaped guitars, hell even private luthiers making wonderful replica's for close to the same money as a Historic. I've had Gibson's and still have one or 2 but all my LP's now are the ones i love, they all just happen to be Japanese. Cheers
     
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  2. Niilopi

    Niilopi Junior Member

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    thanks for these great replies Ive learnt a lot from these. For example ive been looking for that string vibration more than body vibration :D The truth is that there is no best les paul.. (except the ones you already have) theres only the best for me. Im still favoring the theory that the woods make the sound of an invidual guitar, and ofcourse the pickups create the final sound that comes out of your amp. But there will always be the basic sound of the guitar under it.

    So now that i know a bit more what im after.. its this hollow woody les paul sound thats my thing.
    https://youtu.be/y4V9ySatTBM
    https://youtu.be/2yFp9-oOi1Y
    Heres a frew clips to get an idea.

    Im not sure if this sound comes from the guitar itself or the pickups or possibly it can be done with both?
    I know that one r9 i tried had this sound even acoustically and i havent found another guitar that did the same atleast so clearly.

    And im not a purist "hifi" guy.. so the changes have to be pretty big if i can spot them out.
     
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  3. Niilopi

    Niilopi Junior Member

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    Yes sir.. im not looking only gibsons. Yesterday i went and tried a 380 LTD navigator. No need to pay too much for the label on headstock
     
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  4. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

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    Well, kind of. Pasting straight from the 50s wood tone thread that I linked to at the outset:

    Different species of wood and different timber from the same species and different mechanical constructions all resonate slightly differently. They will transmit energy at different frequencies more (less) efficiently than at others. In this way, the wood and construction of the guitar acts as a set of filters that robs energy differentially depending on frequency from the vibrating strings. This is why wood and construction have a modest but discernible effect on tone.

    Think of the wood operating like band pass filters on the frequencies produced by the vibrating string.
     
  5. grayd8

    grayd8 Senior Member

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    I think with guitars, that the resonant frequency of the guitar itself plays a huge role in how quickly the energy bleeds off. I’ve had a few the sustain dropped off sharper at a certain frequency and that is my only explanation for it.
     
  6. L96A1

    L96A1 Senior Member

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    I have just found my dream les paul, it doesn't have the best sustain, but it has the most"right" sound to me, best crunch tone ever. Full, rich, fat and aggressive, no matter how you strum it, it sounds like a trained band, gives you that musically harmonic tone.
    I believe now that there is no rule in finding a les paul, probably because it takes every part to be right, which doesn't happen a lot with Gibson, you just have to meet it.
     
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  7. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

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    Well, yes. Those frequencies at which the guitar is most naturally resonant will be most effectively and rapidly removed from the vibrating string. At its extreme, some notes will be 'dead'. This is described in Fleischer & Zwicker (1998)b Investingating dead spots of electric guitars:

    A long decay of the string vibrations of an electric guitar ("sustain") is considered as a quality attribute. In practice, there are particular locations on the fretboard where for one of the strings the sustain is shorter than at adjacent frets. The player calls this irregularity a "dead spot". It originates from the fact that the string causes the neck of the guitar to vibrate. As a consequence, energy flows from the string to the neck which results in a faster decay. Three structurally different electric guitars (symmetric and asymmetric heads; neck screwed and glued to the body, respectively) served as measuring objects. In a first step, the decay times of the string signals were measured. In a second step, a technique was applied which allowed for in-situ measurements of the mechanical point conductance on the neck of guitars. The experiments revealed a clear inverse relation between the decay time of the string vibrations and the magnitude of the neck conductance. A local high neck conductance indicates a dead spot. In conclusion, the driving-point conductance, measured on the neck perpendicular to the fretboard, promises to be a key parameter for the diagnosis of dead spots.
     
  8. L96A1

    L96A1 Senior Member

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    Not to challenge your point and can you explain more what's the ideal relation between body/neck and string vibrations?
     
  9. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

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    No, I can't - that's the voodoo bit :). All anyone can say is that the neck wood is likely to have more effect on tone than the body as the neck vibrates more and sucks energy from the strings more efficiently than the body because it is light and long and thin. The body is a big lump compared to the neck so it is more resistant to forced vibration. It's possible that the slight extra resistance to vibration resulting from the greater mass of fatter necks might be a thing when it comes to '59 tone rabbit hole discussions ;)
     
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  10. L96A1

    L96A1 Senior Member

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    I read similar theory on the BOTB book, stiff neck is preferred. The use the hide glue is to enhance the vibration of the neck? So the vibration of wood, if somehow in the right frenquency, can boost the vibration of the strings, and this is what resonance and sustain come from and visa versa?
     
  11. freebyrd 69

    freebyrd 69 Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    Sorry, but seriously! Lol. You scientist types crack me up. Hand me a guitar with a good set up.....ANY god&@mn guitar. Fender, Gibson, Hyde glue, bolt on neck, Chibson, made in China Fender.....ANY guitar. Bring it to my house, or better yet a gig. ANY guitar that has a decent set up will sustain just f$cking fine, It doesn’t make a BIT of difference what it sounds like, vibrates like, or anything else like, when it’s unplugged. Standing challenge. Bring em if ya gotem boys.

    It’s silly. The equivalent of “listen to my race car idle”. Then you tell me what the dyno is going to read on it or how it will perform on the track. So dumb. Rant over.
     
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  12. thinkgreen

    thinkgreen Senior Member

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    Reading some great theories here. And talking as a furniture maker. It' the joint that hast to be perfect the glue is secondary. So I will assume the same will be the same for a guitar. If the neck has a good joint it will work just as I tended errelitive of glue type or even screwed on. If joint isn' perfect then then it is weak. Imo of course lol. Better than hyde glue for the not so perfect joint is polyurethane glue like gorilla glue. My honest opinion is the carpentry side is the most important for a great instrament and manufactures take advantage of the passion for vintage correct and use it for marketing purposes.
     
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  13. ARandall

    ARandall Senior Member

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    You have to find the guitar that suits you.....whatever it is. There is no hard a fast rule that a all vintage correct will be right for you. Plenty of people prefer non-vintage correct.

    But it is certainly silly indeed to think that every guitar will be the same. Some do sustain better.....some do have a much more fortuitous choice of woods....no matter how many incoherent rants there are to the contrary. Better players will always bring more out of a bad instrument of course......but is is a brainless fiction to say that all guitars are created equally.
     
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  14. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

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    No! :hyper:

    The energy flow is from the strings to the neck/body, not from the neck/body back to the strings. Lots of people seem to think as you do, but it's not how it works...

    Once the energy leaves the string, it doesn't come back.
     
  15. L96A1

    L96A1 Senior Member

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    We better continue my curiosity in private before we upset the "true players"LOL
     
  16. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

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    Why? You've every right to explore this topic as far as you want. Anyway, your question actually got answered earlier on in the thread...

     
  17. freebyrd 69

    freebyrd 69 Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    Definitely not incoherent. Yes, different woods and build materials will make various guitars DIFFERENT. The brainless fiction comes into play when you start confusing DIFFERENT with BETTER. Two very different things there. My Les Paul's sound DIFFERENT than my Telecaster. Better? Depends on the song I'm using it on. The brainless fiction also continues with the theory that what an electric guitar sounds like acoustically has bearing on what it sounds like plugged in. The set up, the electronics, and the amp are your determining factors. Period.

    Actually, I'll back track on that statement for just a second.......those are the DISCERNIBLE differences when plugged in. If it's your thing to dive into the science of string vibration and the microscopic differences made by glue, that's cool, just don't try and mislead anyone into thinking the human ear will hear a difference when it's plugged in.

    Give me your L.P., and we'll play it unplugged. Then, we will plug it into my rig. Want DISCERNIBLE differences in tone. Give me 10 seconds to change the amp settings. Let's go a step further, and we'll change pickups and try it again. Now let's do a wiring harness.

    Then, you can disassemble your L.P. and change the glue in the neck joint. We'll go back to the original amp setttings we used on my rig. Hear the difference? LOL. THAT is brainless fiction.
     
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  18. LpCustom2007

    LpCustom2007 Senior Member

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    To each their own, but the lol-ability in the statement that a wiring harness makes a bigger difference than the acoustic sound of a plugged in electric guitar is sky rocketing.
    Please tell that to some of my les pauls!! I would love for them all to sound as good as the best one!
     
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  19. LpCustom2007

    LpCustom2007 Senior Member

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    On topic, OF COURSE the acoustic tone makes a difference when plugged in. If not, all reissues would soundthe same. However, I agree that a dull sounding lp can sound GREAT plugged in (I have one). I also have lp’s that sound GREAT both acoustic and plugged in.
    I have yet to try a lp that sounds great acoustic, but like crap plugged in.

    But seriously, saying that the acoustic tone does not affect the plugged in tone is a load of bull.
     
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  20. thinkgreen

    thinkgreen Senior Member

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    The Sean from men in black is in my mind. "The best of the best of the best"
     
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