In Deep: Sweet Child O' Mine

Discussion in 'Guitar Lessons' started by JungleMF, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. JungleMF

    JungleMF Senior Member

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    :slash: Well, mates. We're all know Sweet Child O' Mine intro, wich goes like this:

    |-------------------15------14-----|
    |------15---------------------------|
    |----------14--12------14------14|
    |--12----------------------------|
    |--------------------------------|
    |--------------------------------|

    And with alternated starts like this:

    |------------
    |------15----
    |----------14 ...
    |--14--------
    |------------
    |------------

    ... and, like that:

    |------------
    |------15----
    |--12------14 ...
    |------------
    |------------
    |------------

    And, finally ending with:

    |--12--------------12------14------15------14----------|
    |----------15-------------------------------------------15~~|
    |------14------14------14------14------14------14-----|
    |---------------------------------------------------|
    |---------------------------------------------------|
    |---------------------------------------------------|

    Apparently, we are based upon D major (D Ionian?) scale here - rambling around D-shape, and it is OK.
    When it comes to the chorus with A - C - D - D progression, Hudson runs the following over A chord:

    |--------------------------------|
    |------14----------15------14----|
    |----------14----------14------14|
    |--------------14----------------|
    |--16----------------------------|
    |--------------------------------|

    - all these five notes are from the same D Ionian. OK.

    But! Then he goes:

    |-------------------12-----10---|
    |------13------------------------|
    |----------12--10------12----12|
    |--10----------------------------|
    |--------------------------------|
    |--------------------------------|

    Hang on! What are the F and C notes doing here, in D Ionian, wich is D E F# G A B C#?
    Moreover, what the C chord is doing here?

    :hmm: Will anyone clarify what is happening throughout this tune?
     
  2. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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  3. JungleMF

    JungleMF Senior Member

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  4. Rhust

    Rhust Senior Member

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    I'll have to find the interview again... But sweet child was written on the fly... Axl heard slash noodling on a string skipping exercise and said "we need that!" Basically.. He had a few lyrics written, but not even enough for a song... But they started recording... When it gets to the part in the song where axl is saying "where do we go now? " he's literally asking, "how do we end this f-ing song?" The song was going to be a b side or some throw away, written in the studio and recorded quickly... It was all just kinda thrown together...
     
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  5. JungleMF

    JungleMF Senior Member

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    Yeah, it really might have taken it's place, Rhust.

    Overall, this tune is consisted of two parts. The first one rambles around D mixolydian and second is in E harmonic minor (E natural minor w/D# instead of D).

    Something like that :slash:

    P.S.: E harmonic minor sounds very much "spanish", but maybe it is just me. Just by the way.
     
  6. Gjmanz

    Gjmanz Junior Member

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    Just a few things I would like to add. Just as has been written already SCO'M starts off in D mixo. Even the chorus remains in D mixo because the riff resolves to the D major chord, which could be a D7. The A major would just be considered a quality substitution. A minor would be in key, they chose A major. It works because A major is in D major. You call it a borrowed chord. When playing over the A major, one would just have to be aware of the C or the C#. On a side note, I have read on this site people talking about sus2 and sus4 arpegios in this song. They are not technically a sus chord unless a 3 or a 3b is left out. If there is a 3 or a 3b, then the chords are +9 and +11.
     
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  7. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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    Well an arpeggio is not exactly a chord - it's a chord broken up over time. So we need to look at the effect of time on this part.

    The 4th falls to the 3rd, as sus4s usually do, so the parts in this song could be considered to be a sus4 arp moving to a major arp. The 4 & the 3 don't sound together at any time so "add11" doesn't really fit either. That would seem to convey the idea of a chord/arp that let them both ring together.

    In context of the melodic movement in the line "sus4" makes more sense. Yes, to be picky we should say "sus4, then major" or similar, but "sus4" seems to cover the idea.

    :)
     
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  8. Hotspur

    Hotspur Senior Member

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    The big problem here is your understanding of theory. Theory is not a set of rules about what you can and can't play. It is a set of descriptions of relationships.

    The bVII is a VERY common chord in rock. (That's your C major in the key of D major). You might notice that it is only one note difference from the viiDim, for starters.

    I actually think throwing around modes here - while not an incorrect way to think about this - is needlessly complicated. Here's a better way to think about it:

    Borrowed from the parallel minor.

    The most common non-diatonic chords in rock are probably the bVII, bVI, bIII, and iv. You might notice that all these chords are diatonic to the parallel minor!

    Personally, I reserve the term "mixolydian" for songs which use the minor 7th scale degree AND where the major 7th scale degree is clearly an outside note. Natalie Merchant's "House Carpenter" is a good example of this, and I'm not sure SCOM is, but it doesn't actually matter that much.

    Instead, you see rock songs borrow from the parallel minor all the time, frequently more than one chord (which doesn't fit into a simple modal analysis).

    The key is to remember that you always have access to all 12 notes! Outside notes aren't "wrong," they're "outside." Each scale degree - inside or outside - has it's own relationship to the tonic and you can use them to powerful effect if you know how.

    In order to improvise effectively, you need to understand - intuitively - those 12 sonic relationships. Part of the reason people get locked into thinking diatonically is because they DON'T understand those relationships. Instead, they treat a scale as if it were a series of interchangeable notes by moving their fingers around a shape without really thinking. Rather than "playing by ear" this is really "playing by finger."

    Develop your ear and you'll start to hear this sort of stuff all the time, and you'll realize that the presence of non-diatonic notes doesn't mean you need a new scale, mode, or key.
     
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  9. JungleMF

    JungleMF Senior Member

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    :thumb: Thanks a lot!

    I'll take some time to chew it all up, though :slash:
     
  10. mcmurray

    mcmurray Senior Member

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    Slash plays notes outside the key all the time. It's part of his signature sound.
     
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  11. agquake

    agquake Senior Member

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    Sure, but it's mainly due to his not knowing (or caring, for that matter) whether he is playing diatonicaly, substituting, etc
     
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  12. icantbuyafender

    icantbuyafender Senior Member

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    +1
     
  13. M@nChild

    M@nChild Senior Member

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    can someone tab off the second mini solo its the same as the first but has a closing phrase/progression!
     
  14. JungleMF

    JungleMF Senior Member

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    Well, guys. Decided to reborn an old thread rather than creating a new one.

    Thorough tutorial of this, one of my favorite, tunes, is here:

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blin_r3Pq9A[/ame]
     
  15. Dilemma

    Dilemma Loud Pipes Ruin Naps Premium Member

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    In the beginning when you're learning one of his solos and playing it very slowly you'll notice notes that are just 'out' or don't sound like they belong. Get it up to speed and somehow it all works.

    This isn't to say he's like Vernon Reid who's solos drive me f'n nuts. I'm convinced he's just wailing for the sake of wailing.
     
  16. DADGAD

    DADGAD Senior Member

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    +100 on that. Slash's solos are memorable and you could him them mostly. I once looked at the tab for the solo to Cult of Personality (who got that job?) and it was a sea of notes. That solo sounds like a mess too. I'll take a Neil Young one more solo over that any day.
     
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  17. Tazz3

    Tazz3 Senior Member

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    I started messing with this song the other day and I found out the tab I was useing was wrong,now I found the right tabs but this week I will start again
     
  18. JungleMF

    JungleMF Senior Member

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    $0,02 about SCoM solo is here:

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGS_4EWytnQ[/ame]
     
  19. erikro

    erikro Junior Member

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    Which tab is the right one? Could you post a link please?
     
  20. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    I find conversations like this very funny. I mean sure you want to analyze stuff. I get that. But to think Slash ever thought about what he was playing from a technical stand point is just funny. He was jamming. Nothing more or less. We are not talking Randy Rhodes here where the guy did have theory behind why he played notes.

    The entire intro to that song was a finger exercise..

    All that said, Slash has incredible feeling and expression in his playing. Not theory.
     

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