ideal rate of twist (MLP firearms and shooting thread)

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by JMV, May 28, 2010.

  1. diceman

    diceman V.I.P. Member

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    If you are an experienced shooter, 1911 all the way. That is my pistol of choice.

    BUT

    As far as handguns go, you simply cannot beat the simplicity of the Glock. Rack the slide, point, click. There is nothing else to fuss with. And, given the anticipated situation where you would use it, you will be very, very stressed. Stick with something simple.

    I would recommend the Glock over any other pistol which incorporates a manual safety of any kind.

    And, they can be found cheaply.

    Model 22 or 23 would serve you well.
     
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  2. Caleb

    Caleb Senior Member

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    Hell yes. It's the best thing for muscle memory.
     
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  3. Duane24

    Duane24 Senior Member

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    but you don't need one at home. different laws apply in the home.

    I'm just advising him because as far as I know there are only like 5 states that have the "castle" laws as they call it where you are fully in your right to shoot an intruder.

    you always hear about those funky lawsuits where the robber sues the home owner and what have you.

    and p.s. winn dixie, blah, they suck. publix man.
     
  4. JNS

    JNS Senior Member

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    I carry the Glock 27 with Federal Ammunition 185 grain hollow points. Great gun, and those rounds in particular are good for a gun being kept in the home because the round generally won't penetrate a wall and have the energy to inflict mortal damage.

    The 27 and 23 are great pistols, and I can always find 40 cal rounds at most supply shops

    .[​IMG]
     
  5. KSG_Standard

    KSG_Standard Senior Member

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    A dead intruder can't call the police.
     
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  6. Dan

    Dan Senior Member

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    Well, I think the safety of my family is paramount to further litigation by someone who already broke the law.
     
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  7. Caleb

    Caleb Senior Member

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    Goddamn right.
     
  8. Caleb

    Caleb Senior Member

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    EPIC post! All excellent points!:thumb::dude:
     
  9. McLovin

    McLovin Senior Member

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    This is very true but when the cops do show up, DO NOT SAY A WORD. Call a lawyer who knows gun laws or you may go to jail for a long time. Oh, and you will never see your firearm again no matter what went down. 50% of the time I spent in firearms classes was spent on gun laws and how not to go to jail if you use a firearm in self defence. :fingersx:
     
  10. 45WinMag

    45WinMag Silver Supporter

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    Incorrect.

    Castle Doctrine is the norm. States without Castle Doctrine are the exception.

    From Wikipedia (as of 2008):

    States with a Stand-your-ground Law
    No duty to retreat anywhere.

    Montana
    Alabama
    Arizona
    Florida
    Georgia
    Indiana
    Kentucky
    Louisiana
    Oklahoma Title 21§1289.25
    South Carolina (Persons not "required to needlessly retreat.")
    Tennessee 2007 Tenn. Pub. Acts Ch. 210 (Amends Tenn. Code. Ann. § 39-11-611)
    Texas
    Utah
    Washington (Homicide justifiable in the lawful defense of self or other persons present; and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished ...or in the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony... or upon or in a dwelling, or other place...)

    States with a Castle Law
    No duty to retreat if in the home.

    Alaska
    California (California Penal Code § 198.5 sets forth that unlawful, forcible entry into one's residence by someone not a member of the household creates the presumption that the resident held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury should he or she use deadly force against the intruder. This would make the homicide justifiable under CPC § 197 [3]. CALCRIM 506 gives the instruction, "A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his or her ground and defend himself or herself and, if reasonably necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger ... has passed. This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating." However, it also states that "[People v. Ceballos] specifically held that burglaries which 'do not reasonably create a fear of great bodily harm' are not sufficient 'cause for exaction of human life.'” The court held that because a "trap-gun" was used, the doctrine did not apply. [4]
    Colorado "...any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical force, against another person when that other person has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant." 18-1-704.5 Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.
    Connecticut
    Hawaii (Retreat required outside the home if it can be done in "complete safety.")
    Kansas (§ 21-3212. Use of force in defense of dwelling; no duty to retreat.)
    Maine (Deadly force justified to terminate criminal trespass AND another crime within home, or to stop unlawful and imminent use of deadly force, or to effect a citizen's arrest against deadly force; duty to retreat not specifically removed)[27]
    Maryland See Maryland self-defense (Case-law, not statute, incorporates the commonlaw castle-doctrine into Maryland self-defense law. Invitees or guests may have duty to retreat based on mixed case law.)
    Massachusetts
    Michigan (more recent law—Act 309 of 2006—does not relieve duty to retreat "unless [deadly force is] necessary to prevent imminent death;" this represents no change from common law, which does not require retreat unless it can be safely done)
    Minnesota No duty to retreat before using deadly force to prevent a felony in one's place of abode; no duty to retreat before using deadly force in self defense in one's place of abode [28]) This isn't as clear as it appears, however. There are four cases in Minnesota where duty of retreat was upheld.[29]
    Mississippi (to use reference, select "Code of 1972" and search "retreat")
    Missouri (Extends to any building, inhabitable structure, or conveyance of any kind, whether the building, inhabitable structure, or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile (e.g., a camper, RV or mobile home), which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night, whether the person is residing there temporarily, permanently or visiting (e.g., a hotel or motel), and any vehicle. The defense against civil suits is absolute and includes the award of attorney's fees, court costs, and all reasonable expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff.)
    Ohio (Extends to vehicles of self and immediate family; effective September 9, 2008.[30] Section 2901.09)
    Oregon. (ORS 161.209-229. Use of force justifiable in a range of scenarios without a duty to retreat specified. Oregon Supreme Court affirmed in State of Oregon v. Sandoval that the law "sets out a specific set of circumstances that justify a person's use of deadly force (that the person reasonably believes that another person is using or about to use deadly force against him or her) and does not interpose any additional requirement (including a requirement that there be no means of escape).")
    New Jersey ("Statutes" link in sidebar, see New Jersey Statutes 2C:3-4, retreat required outside home if actor knows he can avoid necessity of deadly force in complete safety, etc.)
    North Carolina
    Rhode Island
    Utah
    West Virginia (Senate bill 145 signed March 12, 2008. WV code §55-7-22)
    Wyoming

    States with weak Castle Law
    The duty to retreat is not removed, but deadly force may be used to end invasion of home without presence of immediate lethal threat.
    Idaho (Homicide is justified if defending a home from "tumultuous" entry; duty to retreat not specifically removed)
    Illinois (Use of deadly force is justified if defending a "dwelling" (a building or portion thereof, a tent, a vehicle, or other enclosed space which is used or intended for use as a human habitation, home or residence) from "a violent, riotous, or tumultuous" entry or "to prevent the commission of a felony in the dwelling"; duty to retreat not specifically removed)
    Montana (Deadly force justified to prevent felony in the home)
    New York (Deadly force justified to prevent burglary or arson of the home)
    Pennsylvania 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 505 on the defense of self says there is no obligation to retreat from the home or workplace unless the actor was the initial aggressor or, in the latter case, set upon by a co-worker; however, "surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto" and "complying with a demand that [one] abstain from any action which [one] has no duty to take" are listed in addition to retreating as avenues which, if open to the actor but not taken, invalidate justification for the use of deadly force. Deadly force itself is not justifiable unless "the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat." 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 507 allows the use of deadly force if the actor believes there has been an unlawful entry into his or her dwelling and believes that nothing less than deadly force will end the incursion; if the person on the receiving end of the deadly force is "attempting to dispossess [the actor] of his dwelling otherwise than under a claim of right to its possession;" or if deadly force is the only thing that will prevent a felony from being committed in the dwelling. In any of those cases, the property owner must first ask the interloper to desist — unless the owner believes that doing so would be "useless," "dangerous," or would result in the property being defended coming to substantial harm before the request to desist could be effectively communicated.
    South Dakota "Homicide is justifiable if committed by any person while resisting any attempt to murder such person, or to commit any felony upon him or her, or upon or in any dwelling house in which such person is." SD Codified Laws 22-16-34 (2005).

    States with no known Castle Law
    Iowa (Law does not require retreat from home, but may require retreat within the home[31])
    Nebraska
    New Hampshire (Such a law was vetoed in New Hampshire.[3])
    New Mexico
    Virginia
    District of Columbia
     
  11. Dan

    Dan Senior Member

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    I've been through plenty on training when I did my CWP course and talked extensively about this.
     
  12. Nicky

    Nicky On The Road Less Traveled Premium Member

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    We are fortunate in Texas in that the burden of proof is upon the perpetrator (or his estate:D).
     
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  13. JohnQ

    JohnQ Senior Member

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    As KP mentioned- the CZ is an Excellent handgun.
     
  14. Duane24

    Duane24 Senior Member

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    no I'm correct, there are gray areas to these laws, people get in a ton of trouble shooting people because of these gray areas.

    but let's not get this thread side tracked, I'm just giving the OP a warning because the details of these laws vary from state to state and you should be aware.
     
  15. 45WinMag

    45WinMag Silver Supporter

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    You said that there are "only like 5 states" with castle doctrine laws.

    That is incorrect.
     
  16. BluesHowler

    BluesHowler Senior Member

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    I'm partial to the Colt .45 1911 just because I carried one as a side arm while in the Army.

    When you ever do have to engage a intruder and when the Police show up just say "I was in fear for my life". Say it very loud and clear before you say anything else to the Police.
     
  17. Mookakian

    Mookakian Senior Member

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    Woah! You guys really need to consider this? Thats really scary. I have a Shapae x Staffy but she's never had to bite, or even bark for that note. So i gotta ask, any stories of actually needing to use one?

    Im so glad i live in Australia, this thread kind of freaks me out
     
  18. SiriusAbbott

    SiriusAbbott Senior Member

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    wow :shock:
    I am amazed by y'all on occasion! :thumb:
    for the most part,outstanding info for the OP
    just to add my $.02USD......
    [​IMG]
    .....My Llama manufactured "Firestorm" in .45ACP :dude: I rarely leave home without it!
    as for the overpenetration aspect with a .45....minimal compared to the .40 :) (and,to be sure,my mags are loaded with frangible ammo)
    ...but as previously noted...nothing beats a 12 gauge pump-action shotgun for home defense,it is a tremendous psychological weapon as well....as for me,mine is an old and well worn J.C.Higgins(Sears) model-20,12 gauge :cool:
     
  19. JMV

    JMV Senior Member

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    If someone breaks and enters into a home in Texas, I can almost guarantee they will be packing heat. I would like to have that same assurance as a last resort. As soon as someone enters my home unwanted and puts my family at risk, they know what they're getting into.

    I don't believe I have to worry a huge amount in Texas about being prosecuted for shooting an intruder.

    A 1911 is definitely on the list to try out. I've shot a few before and I love them, but I'd bet my wife would find it a bit cumbersome. We'll see. I certainly like the knockdown power of a .45. At this point I believe the Glock is at the top of the list, but only handling the guns will tell. I do like te he simplicity of them. That's mostly what I enjoy about revolvers, too.

    I've never heard of CZ, but I'll definitely check them out, too. :thumb:
     
  20. dougk

    dougk Senior Member

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    SW 686. Seriously, take your wife to the range with 38spc's to get her comfortable with it and load it with mags for home defense.

    My HK is my night stand gun but when I leave town I put the SW back in for my wife. Seriously, its easier to shoot and theres no saftey, magazine anything to think about. If the situation isn't resolved in 7 shots then it probably won't matter. Point and shoot.

    Plus.. they are pretty damn accurate.
    [​IMG]

    LOL
     

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