ideal rate of twist (MLP firearms and shooting thread)

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by JMV, May 28, 2010.

  1. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    I'm so cheap, I'd probably try a potato first.
     
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  2. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    Or an oil filter..
     
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  3. cooljuk

    cooljuk Transducer Producer Premium Member

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    Thank you! This is very cool info!

    That helical suppressor looks amazing. It reminds me of a transmission. I've often pondered about redirecting the gasses from a suppressor forward, after the sound suppression, and using them as something of a brake or comp. I think that helical design is fascinating!

    Do you suppose the reflex design has potential with using modern baffle stacks? Even if it only moved the blast chamber and blast baffle rearward, but kept the rest of the can the same as a modern one, it would reduce forward weight and OAL, right?
     
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  4. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    Shit..I wish I was close!!!
     
  5. 45WinMag

    45WinMag Silver Supporter

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    Not really much advantage to be gained. You need expansion before the gases reach the blast baffle, not reliance on the blast baffle to direct gases rearward. At that point you already have gases traveling down the center of the suppressor and the advantage of the additional volume is minimal. Most modern rifle suppressors use some sort of quick detach system with the muzzle device. The blast chamber on most rifle cans is just slightly longer than the muzzle device, with the muzzle device completely inside the blast chamber, and the muzzle brake or flash hider venting directly into the blast chamber. You then have a small additional length before the blast baffle. Nice and efficient. You aren't going to save any length on the suppressor by extending the blast chamber any further rearward - you would just be adding volume without shifting length rearward, since you can't really move the blast baffle any further back due to the presence of the muzzle device in the blast chamber. On a modern can, the additional volume offers little advantage.

    A typical rifle can actually looks more like this:

     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
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  6. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Well California..kiss your ammo good bye.

    As of today, you can no longer buy ammo thru the mail. You now have to buy it over the counter, subject to background check.

    Reloaders there rejoice! You are not effected. Now, sooner or later someone is gonna scream, but i tell you guys, it pays to reload if you live in Kalifornya.

    Jerry Brown..he's such a peckerhead. Always has been even in my time.
     
  7. SteveC

    SteveC Village Elder V.I.P. Member

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    Are you kidding me? You go to an LGS and buy a box of 9mm and have to pay for background check? On a $10 box of ammo?
     
  8. LtDave32

    LtDave32 Sua Sponte Super Mod Premium Member

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    Here we go with the Politics and heavy vibe again, huh?

    Some newbie comes in here now and then, and I school them up on how this thread runs, maintains and manages to keep out of trouble. Even though it's made clear on the first page.

    Now, we're getting "this". Beautiful.
     
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  9. ehb

    ehb Chief Discombobulator Premium Member

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    When I was a kid, we'd squirrel hunt in town limits with a plastic bottle taped on the muzzle. Hard to be real accurate but it worked. We'd get lucky every now and then and hit one by accident... That old .22 was pretty quiet... Tweren't much super velocity much back then. We made do... Shorts, longs, etc.. we'd shoot anything as far as ammo. Might have 8 or 10 rounds twixt us three dumbasses...
     
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  10. SteveC

    SteveC Village Elder V.I.P. Member

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    Sorry, Dave... I'm just trying to get my head around this. I have no political agenda in this thread. I understand the purpose of why it exists.

    As a firearms enthusiast and competitive shooter, my enjoyment of this sport would be significantly hampered by by difficulties in obtaining ammo in quantity. And, any added fees, inconveniences and delays would also be a big PITA, too.

    As I have stated many times - I buy in bulk, generally online (always from TargetSports.com), except for my shotgun ammo, which I get in bulk from Dicks, at significantly reduced prices for multiple case purchases.

    I guess that I take it for granted that I can "point & click" and get 1,000 - 3,000 rounds of .223, 9mm, .38SPL, .22lr, etc. delivered to my door in a couple days. Or, that I can fill up a shopping cart with 10 cases of Remington Gun Club shot shells and just swipe my CC and check out, in a matter of minutes.

    How does everyone else here buy your ammo? Online? In-person? Bulk? A box at a time?

    Here in PA we have instant BG checks for firearms. You can be in & out of the LGS with your brand new firearm in 10 minutes. The only thing they ask when you buy ammo is, "Are you 18 years of age?". No ID required. No BG check.

    It's comical... we can have ammo shipped from out of state to our homes here in PA, but we cannot have any alcoholic beverages shipped to us? LOL


    BTW... tomorrow I am going to look at cans at my LGS. You guys have got me off the dime on getting one of them. I have been wanting to do that for a long while, but never really made any initiative. I have a good lawyer who can set up the trust for me and the family, so that hurdle is easily overcome.
     
  11. ehb

    ehb Chief Discombobulator Premium Member

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    Got all kinds of quality stuff now but I wouldn't trade those memories of us three little dipshits with one junk rifle and a handful of rounds for nothing.

    That and scraping up fitty cent to buy a box of those damn pink box cheap ass Czech 'spoofer' shotgun shells at the auction barn and bird hunting. Always several spoofers in the box.

    Some great hunting memories... Making do with what we had....

    I remember my dad buying me an old shotgun dirt cheap from an uncle so I could have a real shotgun. Win 1912 pump... I was somebody then. It was old, not fancy, but it was mine.

    Good memories...
     
  12. smk506

    smk506 Senior Member

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    I have many fond memories with a group of friends and that Romanian trainer I showed earlier. At one point we had 3 of them between us, all stored at my house because my parents were the coolest. The one shown above is the only one I still have, the others eventually going off with the others. This one actually belonged to my friend who sanded the original finish off with the notion of refinishing it. Took forever and a day to get it down to what amounts to a satin finish. Feels nice, protects the wood and all, but it shouldn’t be any surprise I cherry picked my original one which was in great shape.

    I can’t recall exactly how I came to have this one at the moment, but at this point I wouldn’t trade it for my original one, too many great memories with the family now.
     
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  13. Roberteaux

    Roberteaux V.I.P. Member

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    I have lots of memories of hunting with my dad, my uncles, cousins, and a particular buddy who lived near an area where there were lots of pheasants. Dad had a Springer Spaniel named Suzy, and he had her trained to flush birds for us; she would also retrieve to hand. Suzy was a really great dog. She was kinda hyper, but she was hell on pheasants... that dog just loved to hunt.

    When I turned 12, I got a single-shot 12-gauge H&R shotgun for my birthday, and also got my small game hunting license. Dad would let my buddy and I take the dog out by ourselves, and we took lots of birds when they were in season. To this day, I prefer pheasant to quail-- perhaps it was an acquired taste.

    Used to shoot clays a lot too, seeing as this same friend worked part time at a skeet and trap shooting club, and they let us shoot on the cheap.

    Dad gave me my first .22 rifle for my 11th birthday, and I still have that one. My cousin and I used to shoot rats at the county dump quite often, and I recall that he was the one who bought the ammo at a local gas station/mom and pop store on account of him being of the ripe old age of 13. :D

    I gave that first shotgun of mine to a nephew for his 12h birthday. I bought a Browning Automatic 5 with money I made by working at a grocery store right before he turned 12 and knew he'd be as thrilled as I was when I got it. And so the next thing you knew, he was out bird hunting with us. :thumb:

    He still has that shotgun, too.

    It was great, being a country boy.

    --R
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  14. smk506

    smk506 Senior Member

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    Take a real good look if you haven’t at the current trust regs. Might be more PITA than it’s worth currently, I know my trust isn’t worth to me what I paid for it now from a class3 ownership POV, easier to just buy it myself and deal with one set of prints.
     
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  15. Roberteaux

    Roberteaux V.I.P. Member

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    I'll be going with a trust, mainly because of my age and because I wish to ensure that my daughter gets all my goodies should I suddenly or unexpectedly kick the bucket. I'm also about to pre-pay for my funeral, just so she doesn't have to deal with any of that. In the mean time she is my health care surrogate and somewhere down the road, I'll also give her power of attorney over my estate. In the meantime I have her as POD beneficiary on my bank accounts, stocks, and etc. She's also my life insurance beneficiary.

    Trust attorneys seem to work pretty cheap in this state-- getting a trust in Florida isn't really much of a hassle or all that expensive.

    But having never gotten a trust going before, perhaps things won't be as easy as I've been led to expect. There's always a fly in the buttermilk, it seems...


    ***************​

    The other day, she invited me to dinner. While we ate, I mentioned that I was fixin' to build an SBR and to acquire a suppressor for the rig. I was sawing through my steak when she asked me what was up with all that-- like, why a suppressor and etc.? She wasn't alarmed or full of disapproval, and instead her tone of voice indicated a certain amount of interest and some curiosity.

    And so I gave her an answer... but as the writer, Saki Munro, once said, "A little inaccuracy sometimes saves a ton of explanation". And so rather than to go into the whole song and dance regarding my desire to experiment with working up subsonic loadings in a suppressed rifle, along with a new interest in other, associated technologies, I muttered something about wanting to go hog hunting out in the wetlands behind the gun club.

    I was still watching what I was doing with my steak knife as I answered her, but out of my peripheral vision I saw that she had paused in her movements and may have been sitting there looking at me. I glanced up and found that yes, she was looking at me-- and the expression on her face told the whole tale.

    Her brow was furrowed and her nose a little wrinkled; she was squinting at me with her head canted to one side. She was leaning back slightly, as if appraising me.

    She said, "Really? You are gonna go hog hunting? I've never known you to hunt at all, and I know you're not a fan of pork-- let alone nasty-ass pig meat that came from some mangy razorback. So what gives?"

    I retorted that I did plenty of hunting as a kid, and joked that maybe I was trying to regain my lost childhood.

    She shook her head and said, "Don't bullshit me, dad! You're as likely to go hunting as I am to go over Niagara Falls in a barrel. What's this really all about?" She had one eye closed, as if this would add extra power to the eye that was still open as she searched my face for clues.

    I laughed and shrugged, telling her, "Eh, I just kind of want one for the hell of it, mostly-- but also because I want to get into loading cartridges for it and doing my usual thing while messing with a bunch of different powders and bullet weights... you know the drill with me..."

    And indeed she did. When she was still a little tomboy who had yet to develop any interest in real boys, she used to hang out in the garage with me while I messed around with hand loading.

    She said, "So why didn't you say that in the first place?"

    I laughed and replied that I was attempting to avoid the conversation we were now having. Then I quoted Saki Munro to her.

    She said, "Okay... so this is just a new trip you're on, and you're really just messing with this stuff because it's all new and interesting to you-- right?"

    "Yes," I said. "That's it, in a nutshell."

    She laughed and said, "Thank God! You know, for a minute there I thought you might be losing your mind or something."

    "Losing my mind?"

    "Yeah," she chortled, "losing your freakin' mind! The very idea of you tramping around out in the swamp, to shoot wild hogs, struck me as being ludicrous. You might go to the range a lot, but that's your idea of 'roughing it'... to go to the shooting range, and then to go back home. Other than that, it's hard to get you to leave the house unless you absolutely must for some reason."

    She paused and then snorted, "You-- going out to hunt wild hogs. Yeah, sure..." :laugh2:

    I just beamed at her affectionately. My kid sure does know her old man!

    --R :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  16. 45WinMag

    45WinMag Silver Supporter

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    Most people used a trust to circumvent the chief law enforcement officer signature requirement on ATF Form 4 when living in a jurisdiction with an official who refused to sign the forms as a matter of policy. With the last regulation changes, the chief law enforcement officer signature requirement was removed. This was not because BATFE was trying to be reasonable - it was because they weren't getting the photographs and fingerprints that are required for an individual (not trust) transfer since so many people were using trusts. With the rule change, there really isn't much reason to use a trust anymore. NFA items transfer tax exempt to an heir on ATF Form 5.
     
  17. SteveC

    SteveC Village Elder V.I.P. Member

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    The main reasons that I want to do it in a trust are because I want my wife, daughters and grandson to be able posses any NFA item without my presence and when I pass, to retain title/ownership without any additional BS.

    Plus, I understand that subsequent NFA purchases are "easier" with an already established trust.

    Cost is not an issue - my family lawyer is a member of my gun club and one of his specializations is in gun law. He'll do it pro bono.
     
  18. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    My ears are so bad that i actually don't need a surpressor for anything.
    The few times i shoot an AR with nothing in my ears it sounds like a .22LR.
    Combat can do that to you very quickly.
     
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  19. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    A 1912 is a FINE shotgun.
    [​IMG]

    Good enough to be pressed into service in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam..all the way up to the first Gulf War (I carried one on watch, (along with M500s, it was a random pick from the armorer LOL), and beyond.
    Military version has the heatshield/bayonet lug combo, 20 inch barrel:
    [​IMG]
    Riot version (used by sentries and guards, like I would have used for armed brow watch) 20 or 18.5 inch barrel, no heat shield:
    [​IMG]
    They also had 26 and 28 inch barrels for trap shooting to train aerial gunners.

    It was the descendant of the 1898 model:
    1898 top, 1912 bottom.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The bayonet used was the M1917 Enfield, basically a short sword!! (shown on 1912 below)
    [​IMG]
    I LOOOOVE these guns!
     
  20. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    I really don't see the need for a heat shield on a shotgun, but they look cool and cool counts. One of these days I'll get mine out.
    Those bayonets are too long, looks like you could parry that blade easy and get around it.
    Hopefully he is out of shotshells.
     
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