ideal rate of twist (MLP firearms and shooting thread)

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by JMV, May 28, 2010.

  1. Hairless_Ape

    Hairless_Ape Doc Premium Member

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    Impressive showing by the M&P 15 Sport 2.

     
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  2. SteveC

    SteveC Village Elder V.I.P. Member

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    I finally decided on my optic for my 3-gun and Practical Rifle competition. I was seriously considering the Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6. But, I just never could get comfortable with that reticle. In the end, I decided that I hated it - LOL then, they made a 1-8 version... and, the reticle was better, but still not my cup o' tea. And, it was an assload of $$$ more.

    So, I went in the opposite direction... I got the Vortex Crossfire ii 1-4X with the V-brite reticle. It's perfect for me. A simple crosshair reticle, with a 1.5 MOA dot in the center. And, the dot can be illuminated! Just the dot.

    So, for close up at 1X, it's basically a red dot! For the long shots out to 100 and 200 yards, I can dial up the mag and put the dot on the target.

    Sometimes, we run a stage in the match, or the entire match with BUIS only. With my old RD, I could just turn the dot off and use the BUIS, cowittnessed through the RD. Of course, you cannot do that with a scope. So, I picked up a Burris PEPR QD mount.

    I got everything mounted today and ran out of daylight, so tomorrow is sight in and test day. I need to make sure that I can remove & replace the scope, with a good RTZ. Fingers crossed. I don't need it to return perfectly, but +/- 1-2MOA would be wonderful!

    Here's a few pix...

    Scope and QD Mount.JPG

    Rifle with Scope 3.JPG
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
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  3. Roberteaux

    Roberteaux V.I.P. Member

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    Very nice! :thumb:

    Great product review also-- thanks for posting it!

    Please give us a field report after you're done zeroing and testing tomorrow... I'm always interested in your observations, especially when it comes to optics... ;)

    --R
     
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  4. SteveC

    SteveC Village Elder V.I.P. Member

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    Will do, Rob. I angst'd over this for a long time. I really wanted to like the Strike Eagle, but could just never pull the trigger. I knew deep down inside that I wouldn't like it. Everything else that I really LOVED was even more expensive. And, I wanted to keep the cost to around $300.

    I got to see the Crossfire ii in person, last month at the match. As soon as I looked though the tube, I knew that it would work for me. Simple reticle, red dot center. I don't need a BDC reticle. I never shoot out past 200 yards.

    Using a 50/200 zero, I'm dead nuts on at 50 & 200 and 1.5" high at 100. So, I put the dot on the target and fire. The worst I am off is 1.5". For my competitions, that is zero error!

    The Crossfire ii was on sale at Optics Planet for $199 and with the 11% cyber-Monday sale, it came down to $177. The Burris QD mount was $90 less the same 11% - $88. Free shipping was icing on the cake. So, I ended up UNDER budget.

    Not a high-end set up, by any stretch of the imagination. But, it should be just what I need to be more competitive in my games. The RD alone was not getting it done for me. The longer shots had too many misses and the shooters with scopes were picking up major points over me on those shots.

    I can tell you that it will be a learning experience for me. I have never shot with a scope. I'm going to be getting a real-time lesson on consistent and proper cheek weld and eye relief. It's another skill that will need to be first learned... then, mastered.

    Just mounting it correctly was an experience.
     
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  5. Roberteaux

    Roberteaux V.I.P. Member

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    I know that feeling! Took me a month of Sundays to decide on that EOTech I bought, and now I'm up the same tree all over again for having plunked the EOTech on that .300 BLK I rigged up. I find myself in need of something to replace it on one of my other AR rifles that continues to be configured for 5.56...

    The EOTech and .300 BLK is not a "fun" rig... it's a "tool" rig and I am firing it regularly.

    But, since it's considerably less expensive to fire 5.56/.223 ammo just for the sporting pleasure of it, and because I have tons of components with which to assemble cartridges, I still fire way more 5.56 than .300 BLK.

    So now I'm looking for a red-dot (non-holo) sight to stick on one of the AR's for fun. It doesn't have to be bomb-proof or capable of surviving after being dunked in water or anything. But since I still have vivid memories of the el cheapo Chinese red dot I had that more or less self-destructed, I realize that I'm not in the market for anything that inexpensive. I mean, I'd like the thing to at least survive more than a year or so without actually falling apart, the way that 19-buck POS did... :laugh2:

    And so the search continues... :hmm:

    I think you made a great choice with this Vortex. You got value, quality, and practicality all in one fell swoop! :thumb:

    That's great! "Accurate enough" is usually accurate enough. Ain't like you're shooting in benchrest competitions or sniping at the Taliban in the Hindu Kush range, or anything like that.

    Meanwhile, nothing Vortex has to offer seems like junk. The company's products might not be the most expensive of gear types, but what I've seen of their stuff looks to be of good quality anyway. I'd rather get whatever the job at hand is done correctly, with tools that are sufficient for my purpose, than to try and impress folks and spend myself into the poor house with expensive gear.

    Can see how that would happen, too... :hmm:

    Just gonna be a question of you forming useful habits. You'll have that sussed out by about tomorrow night, and with a little practice it will all become second nature. You're not a new kid when it comes to this stuff by any means.

    Please do be sure to let us know what your impressions are tomorrow-- or at least, once you've pretty much got a grip on the whole subject of this new scope.

    These product reviews are not only very interesting, but they're also useful to others. I have doubt that sooner or later I am liable to want to put a scope on that Bushmaster ACR I've got... and for sure I see myself getting something better than what I had for that .270 bolt I'm still screwing around with... the Nikon Prostaff 3-9 x 40 I had on it before migrated to my Ruger 10/22, and once I get back to really working with the .270, I'll want something a little better for it.

    Gonna be doing some crazy stuff with 100-grain bullets in that rifle. But dang: every time I'm about to concentrate on it, I do something weird that really diverts my attention-- like buying a .300 BLK upper and messing with loads for it... :facepalm:

    --R :D
     
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  6. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Thats what i have, and why i bought it. These are the very best entry level ARs out there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
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  7. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    These are sweet also. I'm looking at these right now. I believe these can make a very good shotgun for my purposes.
     
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  8. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Rob, you can't go wrong with Vortex glass at almost any price level.
     
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  9. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    Just reaffirms I made a solid choice! :D
     
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  10. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    I felt it was the best choice for me. I'm not spending allot of money on an AR. After all, i bought it for one reason only. To take with me on the quad.
     
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  11. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    If you don't have a mill, and drill press, this could work for your build.
     
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  12. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    Well..I had an AHA moment..Thee was a BURR on the are of the slide bar that wasn't allowing the proper interface with the cartridge stop..
    [​IMG]
    Burr was right where the finger is pointing.
    [​IMG]
    I had deburred the stop and bent it..but didn't for some reason check the slide bar. The cammed area had a burr, as did the stop..which may have been from a super hard rack,(when first in WTF?? failure mode) or the stop was bent out of spec throwing the geometry of the action off..(When out of adjustment the action bar slams into the stop instead of sliding over it), jamming the cams and causing the damage to the interfacing parts of the slide bar and stop? Not sure, but both are smooth as a baby's bottom now..the burr was causing the stop not to fully retract into the channel in the receiver when the slide bar came back to push it out of the way to allow a shell out of mag tube. I used a diamond file to reshape, then 1000 grit, then scotchbrite..the interface between the two parts is now slick and silky. I used the scotchbrite on the wearing surfaces of the elevator as well..and gave everything a good clean and light oil.

    Cycling like a champ now!
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
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  13. Hairless_Ape

    Hairless_Ape Doc Premium Member

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    I absolutely love mine. It is a dream to shoot. The felt recoil is maybe half what it is with the 500. Mine has run flawlessly the 2 years I've owned it.

    I have seen posted online that it doesn't cycle reliably with certain brands of target loads. The only one I've used is estate super sport 1 1/8 oz #7.5, and have had no issues.

    They now make a model with just a bead front site as well. I believe it's only $500 at Cabela's.
     
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  14. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Good job Kris! I'm proud of you for sticking with it and solving the problem yourself, instead of giving up and sending it back for repair.
    I've stated all along, you guys can do this stuff yourself. Great job of diganoses, and fixing your own weapon! Its a simple process of elimination, just like working on engines in the good old days. If you just pay attention, understand what you're looking at, and at least understand its function, you can fix it by R or R.
    Out standing!
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  15. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    That is nice to hear, as i want one. The only other choice over the 870 platform personally. Thanks!
     
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  16. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    Thanks!! :D
     
  17. MSB

    MSB Senior Member

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    glad you got it worked out Kris
     
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  18. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    When i see all the cool rifles on here, then look at mine, i bet someone thinks i got a bunha stuff all over that thing. Sometimes i think the same thing.

    But i have a totally different need than most other shooters. I see that Steve C likes the competitive aspect of the AR, while rob likes to at times point' n shoot. Firstest with the mostest kind of thing.

    Others have range toys due mainly to limited, or no access to outdoor ranges or public land where they can shoot. Lt. appears to drive down the dirt road abit with long range capabilities.


    It is interesting, how many there are just right here. 45mag, Troubadour, Robert and everyone else. Kris recently has jumped in with one of those big dawg sights on it already.

    I certainly would not consider mine for self defense inside the house. Thats just me. I know some might, or do.
    What I'm really setup for 100% is, i just can't afford to miss, day or night out in these mountains alone. I have no immediate backup. I have to hit my target without fail, be it human or animal.

    I've had folks ask me, scout, why go out in the woods like that then ?
    My mind set is this, i like it out there. Animals are the least of my worries, but on the list. When people know for certain that there is no immediate assistance available, thats when they can start acting up. And, at times they do. The biggest majority don't.

    But setting here reading this is not the same as being 25 miles back in there on the quad by yourself. See..i get scared easy, and i believe in stuff out there.

    So my rifle, just like everyone else's has to do a few things universally well. I need that 270 lumans at night out there, not at home. It has to light up everything in front of the gun barrel to my advantage, and to intimidate as well. This could suddenly be anything. A raccoon, or something else.
    The light also allows me to clearly see, and use my iron sights in total darkness. I've confirmed that in use.

    The lazer is one of the most useable tools at night. I can fire without shouldering the weapon in any position, from the hip. Where ever that beam is, is also where the bullet is. That could be especially important at night. Sleepy, cant get to my glasses..? Don't matter. I can see that beam plain as day. Very fast. And very intimidating as well.

    The red dot, is the primary sight on my rifle, from a self defense aspect its fast. Dot on..pull trigger. A monkey could do it.
    Red dot don't work, fine. I have clear iron sights and the laser for closer targets.
    IMG_20171208_080628_8012.jpg
    Now, admittedly i do like the gangster grip.
    Its very controllable, allows the option of an instant, if not noisey deployment. I don't usually have it on, but i like the option of different accessories.
    It also allows me to set the rifle down safely on the ground if necessary, and provides better long range accuracy.
    IMG_20171208_080838_8039.jpg
    So everything has a use that benefits me, where i need to count on it most. Its Beautiful out there, but it can be a little weird at times too. And remember, I'm not ruckn' with this thing. Its in the quad box.
    20170702_061814.jpg
    20170701_202256.jpg
     
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  19. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    A cool story, just this summer when those photos were taken, a forest cop (Boulder County Sheriff) stopped by to inform me of an empending fire ban. He must have been 35-38. Young guy.
    We were talking and he wanted to check out my AR when he saw it in front of the tent. He was really cool. He liked it better than the one he had in is rig. He didn't take his out, but i got to check it out.
     
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  20. SteveC

    SteveC Village Elder V.I.P. Member

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    Well, I had a very unproductive day at the range. I went to zero the new scope and then, do some testing. But, it just didn't work out well for me, because I am stoooopid.

    I had a very limited window of time to spend at the range, because I had meetings booked before and after. In my rush, I failed to bring enough ammo. I usually keep 3 boxes of "emergency ammo" in my rifle bag, along with an "emergency magazine" - just in case!

    Well, today was one of those "just in case" days.

    I grabbed a box of ammo, threw it in the range bag, bagged up the AR and ran to the range. Little did I know, there was no emergency ammo in my rifle bag, because I took the wrong rifle bag!

    Why I didn't put more than one box of ammo in my range bag is beyond me... just stupid!

    So, with only one box of ammo, I was able to get the scope zero'd and run a few tests. But, no where near enough shots to make any judgements.

    I will have no time until NEXT weekend to do any shooting. <sigh>

    First impressions of the Crossfire ii are quite positive. It grouped well at 100 yards. I had some trouble at 50 & 200 though. And, not enough ammo to determine if it was the setup, or me.
     

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