ideal rate of twist (MLP firearms and shooting thread)

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by Frogfur, Jul 4, 2017.

  1. cooljuk

    cooljuk Transducer Producer Premium Member MLP Vendor

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    You got your answer in detail already, Roberteaux, but I'd like to share a couple thoughts on it, if I may...

    With an integral suppressor that meets minimum non-NFA barrel length, I believe only one tax stamp would be needed, as you wouldn't have an SBR, but only a suppressed rifle.

    With a removable (typical) suppressor on an AR pistol (so built with a brace like this instead of a stock) you could remove the suppressor when not needed and have a non-NFA firearm that could easily travel across state lines, be kept loaded and chambered in a vehicle in most states, and whatever other local laws may benefit the ownership of a pistol over a rifle or SBR.

    So you have an option to save $200 on a stamp and an option to have a "more free" firearm that also saves stamp money, if any of those may be concerns.

    I recently learned of another type of suppressor that has one of the acoustic chambers go back over and around the barrel, so the barrel basically threads into the center of it, rather than at the end of it, reducing OAL. For the life of me, I can't recall or find the term now. It's not "inverse suppressor" but something like that. Perhaps Mr. 45 or another here will correct me on this. If anyone has experience with one, I'd be interested to hear if there are drawbacks. I like the idea of a shorter OAL and a more-rearward center of gravity and will be either suppressing my 300BK or building another one with a suppressor, likely in this new year.
     
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  2. cooljuk

    cooljuk Transducer Producer Premium Member MLP Vendor

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    Would a piston driven system reduce this problem (compared to a DI system), or would that just introduce other problems?
     
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  3. SteveC

    SteveC Village Elder V.I.P. Member

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    So, if I wanted a can that will work on a 5.56 AR and a 9mm pistol, is it possible to get a single one that will work (and be effective) for both?

    Which one would you recommend?
     
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  4. cooljuk

    cooljuk Transducer Producer Premium Member MLP Vendor

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    I've wondered if that Maxim PDW Brace is compatible with this BAD PDW monolithic lower.

    The designs look VERY similar and if they are compatible, I think it might be the ultimate light/short pistol build platform.
     
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  5. cooljuk

    cooljuk Transducer Producer Premium Member MLP Vendor

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    This one will do it. https://www.silencershop.com/liberty-mystic-x.html

    I think the tradeoffs for working with multiple calibers will be weight, size, and probably efficiency, as the suppressor has to be built to the worst case scenarios for the hardest job it may do.
     
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  6. 45WinMag

    45WinMag Silver Supporter

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    Never messed around with piston uppers, so I'm not qualified to comment.

    That would be an excellent choice for a jack-of-all-trades suppressor. Keep in mind, this suppressor doesn't come with any mount. To use it on a rifle, you must purchase your threaded endcap separately. To use it on a pistol, you must purchase your booster (Nielsen device) threaded endcap separately. These add cost ($125-160 per mounting option) and weight.
     
  7. cooljuk

    cooljuk Transducer Producer Premium Member MLP Vendor

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    "Reflex Supressor" is the term! I remembered. http://guns.connect.fi/rs/general.html

    Anyone have experience? If these are designed around supersonic ammo, and can make an OAL shorter and a COG further back, are they not PERFECT for a hunting 300bk build?
     
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  8. cooljuk

    cooljuk Transducer Producer Premium Member MLP Vendor

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    Happy New Year in Mountain Time (the time closest to The Sun!) to all here!

    The knowledgable and sharing group in this thread is amazing and I'm extremely humbled and grateful to know you all, even if only a little.

    _

    I hope that I can even meet some of you in person, one day. Thank you for your knowledge and camaraderie.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  9. Roberteaux

    Roberteaux GOOMPH! V.I.P. Member

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    Cool link-- thanks for posting 'er! :thumb:

    I've no experience with any of these silencers/suppressors... just a generalized understanding of some of the basic principles. Learning more all the time, though...

    Anyway: while reading the page you pointed to, I found myself looking at this image:

    [​IMG]
    And it reminded me somewhat of a cutaway drawing I once saw of the original Maxim Silencer, patent of 1909-- though the pattern of baffles doesn't look quite the same.

    Scrounging on the web, I found the image that I saw, many years ago...

    [​IMG]
    https://www.forgottenweapons.com/accessories/maxim-silencer/

    Seems to me that these silencers/suppressors/cans would indeed make hunting a bit more pleasant when one actually shoots at wild game.

    The range I'm a member of is also a hunting club and game preserve. I think there's some thousands of acres that belong to the club itself, and those lands border on state property where hunting is allowed at certain times of the year.

    Mainly what the guys seem to be doing out there year 'round is hunting wild hogs. There are so many of them in this state that no hunting permit is required, it's open season all year long, and there's no bag limit. They even sell tickets and offer guided hunts to those who do not wish to belong to the club, but who would like to hunt hogs once in a while.

    I was talking to one of the range safety officers the other day, and he was saying that there's at least a half-dozen members he's aware of that go out there after hogs using suppressed rifles chambered in .300 BLK, along with a few others who use a rifle in .308 Winchester.

    I don't know what makes or models of rifles or suppressors those guys are using, though.

    --R
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  10. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Send me a pm of where you are. Maybe we can meet up.
     
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  11. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    After evaluation, I've decided to leave the Wilson trigger in my AR. The biggest reason is convenience of maintaining the fire control group, and taking the trigger assembly out now and then for inspection and maintenance.

    I actually did very nice trigger work on the original trigger, but tired of all the individual parts, decided to try the Wilson that i had for about a year or so prior. These, in my opinion only, are the best drop in triggers out there. @$269.00 they are not cheap, but worth every penny in quality and reliability.

    The biggest advantage is ease of removal and re-installation, no loose parts and steel bushings.
    I've come to really enjoy this trigger.
    Especially, since i struggle at times past about 150 yards.
    A nice trigger makes it a joy to shoot.

    Happy shooting, and a safe new year shooters.
     
  12. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    Happy New Years guys!!
     
  13. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    New shop wood burning stove finally finished. Nice and cozy now.
    IMG_20180101_064440_9923.jpg
    Makes projects a little nicer out there.
     
  14. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    Nice brickwork! Acts to project the heat too!

    Does that one burn corn too? I have seen a few of those here in Michigan.
     
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  15. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    I didn't do the brickwork. My son's friend did. I've still got along way to go, but at least that part is now operational.
    Just in time too.
     
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  16. 45WinMag

    45WinMag Silver Supporter

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    At first I thought you might be talking about the helical suppressors made by OSS. They encompass more of the barrel than most modern suppressors. They have fins and channels that direct airflow in a helical pattern instead of using traditional baffles to trap gasses. No experience with them, but supposedly they are efficient. The open ended front supposedly minimizes the "gas in the face" effect when used on an AR.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The reflex suppressors you linked are old technology from Eastern Bloc suppressors. The large volume around the barrel is basically acting as an enlarged blast chamber (the first void in a suppressor is called the blast chamber - it is typically larger than the subsequent chambers and is often reinforced to withstand higher heat and pressure, as is the first baffle in the stack, called the blast baffle). A large blast chamber is good, but the reflex suppressor is trying to trade off an excessively large blast chamber for an extremely short baffle stack. A larger blast chamber isn't enough to compensate for an inadequate baffle stack. Modern suppressors are far more efficient.
     
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  17. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    I'm so cheap, I'd probably try a potato first.
     
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  18. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    Or an oil filter..
     
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  19. cooljuk

    cooljuk Transducer Producer Premium Member MLP Vendor

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    Thank you! This is very cool info!

    That helical suppressor looks amazing. It reminds me of a transmission. I've often pondered about redirecting the gasses from a suppressor forward, after the sound suppression, and using them as something of a brake or comp. I think that helical design is fascinating!

    Do you suppose the reflex design has potential with using modern baffle stacks? Even if it only moved the blast chamber and blast baffle rearward, but kept the rest of the can the same as a modern one, it would reduce forward weight and OAL, right?
     
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  20. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    Shit..I wish I was close!!!
     

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