ideal rate of twist (MLP firearms and shooting thread)

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by JMV, May 28, 2010.

  1. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    You dawg you..i was just about to buy a new barrel and spring it on you..


    Nice though. I'm looking at a Grendel barrel.
     
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  2. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    Rob, I think that is jewlers rouge, probably best for high gloss polish. I use that stuff and a wheel on my silver rings..glosses up the turquoise too! :D
     
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  3. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    Guys, I want a shotgun again.

    I grew up with a Western Field 16 guage, and stood watch with a M12.

    I'm thinking an older 870, as I hear that the newer ones have plastic triggers..

    I also want a M12 style heat shield, simply for the fact that I think it looks great! (and fond memories of HOURS of watch with one.) I would love the lug too! Nothing says Get the F*** out of my House than a shotgun with bayonet affixed.)
    [​IMG]

    So I see there are a few heat shield options.. for home defense..I don't know if I'd need to grab that hot barrel to convert it into a club, or what, so I would prefer it, if not just for nostalgia sake.

    I could "tac" it out..but I like the traditional look.

    SO Inland makes a trench gun type replica..kinda pricey though! Inland M37 is the model.
    Sheesh..I could buy a nice SG for this kind of $$
    but has the heat shield and lug..(accepts M1917 bayonet)
    https://www.gunsamerica.com/950076947/Inland-M37-Trench-Shotgun-12-Gauge-20-4-1-New-in-Box.htm
    upload_2017-9-27_6-4-26.jpeg
    So would be much more inexpensive to just add one of these:
    upload_2017-9-27_6-6-48.jpeg

    [​IMG]
    To an 870. 20 inch or 18, whichever..home defense being the goal, with occasional outdoor shooting..I want my ol lady to be able to load and shoot it too..and ultimately teach her to break down and clean it as well.

    From what I hear I can snag a good 870 for a couple of bills..hell, maybe one traditional, and one modern/tactical? (lights, sights, modular stocks, rails, you know..)

    Any other brands that you would recommend? I've hear Mossberg has an aluminum receiver..don't know about that..Winchester? Browning? Ithaca? From all accounts, I hear 870 is the KING.
     
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  4. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    Heat shield on 12ga is battle proven concept..thoughts?
    [​IMG] upload_2017-9-27_6-29-57.png
     
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  5. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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  6. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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  7. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    If they are, we are all in trouble. The military uses Mossburg shotguns. Kris, that shotgun is fine. The main thing to look for are double action bars on the pump. Single action bars work ok but can bind with improper technique.
    Nothing wrong with Mossburg.
     
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  8. Cozmik Cowboy

    Cozmik Cowboy Senior Member

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    Talked to my son in AK yesterday; a friend of his is "going South", as they say up there - took David to his storage container & said "help yourself".
    Among the stuff he got (for free, mind you) were a drill press and....an AK clone in .308, with a full 50-round drum mag.
    I look forward to my next visit..........
     

  9. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    Right on Larry..just hear a lot of BS ..I appreciate the straight scoop.
     
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  10. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Robert, here is about the best video avaliable on the barrel feed ramp. Not everything here is applicable to your ramp. Take what you need and leave the rest.

    People have always bitched about the .45 acp jamming. Always.There is a certain amout of truth to these critisms. First off, gun writers themselves are somewhat to blame for this notion that heavily customized .45 caps are the bee's knees. And a certain amount of customization is necessary to make them function correctly.

    #1 reason - incompetent customization.
    Most of the things you can have done are simply a waste of your money. There are a few things that can be done that are not expensive, but most shooters should simply leave them alone.
    Only with a strong appreciation for its strong points, and weak points, will the user be able to get the most from their .45s.
    There are a few reasons. Why they screw up - the above and:

    #2 inappropriate ammo.

    #3 lack of lubrication.

    #3 cheap magazines.

    #4 flaws in the basic designs.

    #5 A general propensity toward small, breakable parts.

    Don't hand it over to your local hack-slash artist. There are just not that many good pistol Smith's out there. Sorry..butta..Truth.
    Until about a decade ago, customizing your 1911 was a fantastic idea, and made more sense than today.

    A decade ago, these were setup by the factory to feed hardball only. If you buy a straight G.I. model today, that could still be the case. Sights were horrible, trigger pulls might, or might not be extremely stiff and heavy.

    Today's gun comes out of the box hollow point compatible with a throat job, Decent, high visibility sights, beavertail safety grip, beveled mag wells, lowered ejection ports etc. Most are very good to excellent. What the hell more do you want?

    Don't modify the trigger pull! Guns with lessened hammer/sear engagement, steel triggers and heavy recoil springs, Instead of staying cocked so you can fire the next shot the hammer follows the slide down and falls to half cock could be the result.

    You almost never see this on a stock gun.
    You see this more on guns sent to incompetent pistolsmiths.
    When the slide slams forward into battery the heavy steel triggers want to remain in place (inertia)you guys, so the trigger wants to stay in place, but it actually moved back in its track.
    If the hammer/sear has been compromised, by taking too much metal, or changing the angle of the hammer hooks, the trigger can bounce enough to jostile the hammer hooks and sear out of engagement, causing your hammer to fall to half cock.
    * this also happens to older guns with military spec parts have been substituted for colt parts. Remember, the 1911 was designed to chamber a round with the slide moving forward at full speed.

    ** if you keep a .45 for home self-defense with the hammer down on an empty chamber, always rack the slide swiftly to chamber a round to prevent a failure to feed. NEVER HOLD THE TRIGGER TO THE REAR WHILE DROPPING THE SLIDE!
    I consider this a very dangerous practice.

    Shooters seem to want to stuff everything imaginable into their 1911s and then seem amazed when it doesn't feed reliably. Avoid wishful thinking first off.

    The 1911 is not as tolerant as some more modern designs in terms of the range of bullet profiles that it can(will)reliably feed.
    Remember, it was designed from the start to feed hardball, so no matter what you do, there is no way around that.

    So what I can tell you is that the further away your gun departs from a hardball profile, the more trouble you are asking for. Make feed reliability a main priority when selecting .45 ammo.

    Hollow points that feature a rounded, hardball type of ogive are more feed reliable than the flat nose, truncated-cone or semi-wad cutter design shape.
    The .45 acp is a short, fat cartridge which is not the most feed reliable cartridge profile to start with. Again, it was designed from the ground up to feed hardball. Anything else is just asking for jams.

    Some think stopping power is the main consideration. NO..NO..NO. The primary consideration is feed-reliability! Even if your bullet has deeper penetration(or lack of) a one shot stop power ain't no damn good if your wonder round is hung up on the feed ramp..right ? Well fucking Doh!
    * if stopping power is the name of the game, the .45 seems to be quite forgiving in terms of load selection. If those are the traits you deem reliable, all that doesn't do any good if your jammed up.

    If your piece hasn't been lubricated in about 3 days it's bone dry! Oil evaporates. If you carry your weapon muzzle down in a holster, gravity pulls the oil down the slide rails, around the bushings and out of the gun. In my experience, Teflon based products don't work any better. Just voodoo. Every few days take some time and lubricate the 1911.

    *proper lubrication-
    Unload the gun, lock the slide to the rear, put a small drip of oul on the slide rails and allow the slide to move into battery.
    Put a thin coat of oil on the exposed barrel where it rides the bushing when the gun is cylicing and on the barrel hood and cycle a few times and you are in business.
    DO a better job when you field strip the gun.

    Magazines. You pay $500-$750.00 for a .45acp then but cheap magazines to feed that beast ? Really ? No on 8 round magazines too. There is a reason.
    The 8 round mags are designed for competition but have problems.
    The very best mags out there are the Wilson-Rogers design, bar none.

    Problems I will go into later if you wish.
    Those include the slide stop, extractors, barrel bushing/recoil spring plug.
    The plunger tube etc.

    Rob, knowing how anal you are about your weapons, and cleaning some of this for you is just the gift of gab.

    Hope no misspelling. I'm not reviewing all that crap.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017

  11. smk506

    smk506 Senior Member

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    Take a good look at the specs, some of the mossbergs use plastic trigger group housings as well if I'm not mistaken.
     

  12. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Only for a few reasons. Simple disassembly, lots of add on money wasters and double action bars.
     
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  13. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Everything is plastic these days. That would not effect my decession although it might for some. Let's verify that. If plastic was an issue Glocks would be dead in the water. I have no interest in them but some love them. For me to smile, I need an all steel firearm.
     

  14. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    If you like them, dont let anyone talk you out of one. For combat, hot weapons they sure serve a purpose. But otherwise, spend that money on shotgun shells.
     
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  15. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Kris, if you do get that shotgun we wanna see cool. Be sure and show us when you get time.
    :dude:
     
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  16. cooljuk

    cooljuk Transducer Producer Premium Member

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    That's a "Maverick 88" right? Those have the safety in the 870/Daisy location on the trigger guard, rather than the typical 500 location on the top. I think that, and that some parts are not exchangeable with standard aftermarket or factory 500 series parts, are the main physical differences. The warranty is also different, if that concerns you.

    When I bought my last Mossy (a 590) it had some little problems out of the box (little, as in it wouldn't cycle rounds, at all!). Mossberg was cool (as they should be, considering this was somewhat common) and sent me a bunch of replacement action parts. Turns out the replacement parts had the same problem and I ended up fixing the issue by modding my original parts. The point of that is that I now have all the goodies to convert a Maverick 88 to a 500 (minus the trigger group/safety) and allow it to take aftermarket parts. So, I'll be picking up an 88, myself, for a truck gun next time I head down to my favorite local shop for something. ...that is, if I can avoid the temptation of a Shockwave.
     

  17. ramaglia375

    ramaglia375 Premium Member

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    A 300 BO upper minus bcg for $199? Damn! That's a no brainer there, good score
     
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  18. Seven

    Seven Silver Supporter

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    Love the 590A1.

    [​IMG]
     

  19. Hack

    Hack Senior Member

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  20. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    I wanted to add a note to the above post on feed issues with the 1911. The main thing Rob can do that would assist him and, even if it don't it will look impressive as hell!

    That would be simply polish his feed ramp as in last night's simple, but good Wilson example. The reason being, if you noticed that with the slide locked back, a loaded magazine(best done with dummies)hopefully you shooters are using these to test cycling function.

    What you see is a slightly upward cant to the top csrtridge. Appears it would launch right on in there dont it. What actually happens is, when the cartridge is picked up by the blast shield of the slide and moved forward, it actually takes a bit of a nose dive as it starts to exit the magazine feed lips and slams into the feed ramp and in a perfect world slips right up into the chamber smoothly.

    Unfortunately what actually causes problems are such things as tool marks left from the manufacturing process, non-uniform, improper forging and stuff like that.

    You can't see it for the most part, but it there and it sure won't do any harm to polish and smooth that area up and is a beneficial addition to smooth functionality, and that would be my recommendation.

    Lastly, its good to keep things light hearted here. One of the reasons this area functions well. But we don't do incomplete here otherwise it serves no purpose.

    That was why I went into detail about feed issues with the 1911. If you realize that there are a number of design features that cannot be over come, but some that can be improved upon, you better understand more why these guns do what they do. If you understand what they do and why, you now understand what to do about it without wasting times or resources. There is a simplistic view by many that it's the gun, the ammo etc etc. Blame it on anything but reality.

    I could have said just that in two paragraphs, oh its the ammo, probably the damn gun.
    But that would have been a dis-service to your issue.
    i would have past on a post that wasn't worth a tinkers damn. We don't operate like that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017

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