ideal rate of twist (MLP firearms and shooting thread)

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by JMV, May 28, 2010.

  1. Roberteaux

    Roberteaux V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    26,207
    Likes Received:
    126,510
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    My typical product is more of a Louisiana Cajun variety, though sometimes I'll set it up in the Creole style of New Orleans proper.

    But man, they've got some deadly-good gumbo in Mississippi. You know you're in the right place when you walk in and find that they've got filé sitting right on the table along with the usual other condiments, even though they also cooked a little right into the brew along the way.

    --R :thumb:

    ETA: Alabama folks know the stuff well too. They're also heavier on the filé than the Mississippi versions tend to be.

    In New Orleans, you've got to ask for filé if you want some. It's not usually found on the table's condiments tray. That's because the distinctive flavor of filé is apparently not to the liking of those tourists who aren't used to the stuff.

    But once outside of New Orleans, say in Baton Rouge, and there's your filé again.

    I usually just give a guest who has never eaten gumbo a bottle of filé and tell 'em to take a whiff. If they don't like the scent of it, they probably won't like the flavor either.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
    Frogfur and BlankinLoud like this.
  2. Roberteaux

    Roberteaux V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    26,207
    Likes Received:
    126,510
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    I've always liked that one. Very nice handgun-- pleasant to shoot and accurate enough for me.

    I don't generally shoot it-- and have only carried it once, during that cemetery deal I told you guys about before. Bottom line with me is that the .44 Bulldog is lighter and handier. That's why I shoot that one quite often and do load for it.

    As for the feed ramp: if you please, what are we talking about here?

    A dremel with a felt wheel and a bit of Flitz polish? Or should I use something like valve-lapping compound? I'm not in a hurry to mung this thing up...

    I know better than to grind the sucker with a stone or anything like that. And as I said: it's not as if I'm truly upset that this thing likes ball ammo-- but if I could get it to be less particular about ammo, that would be just fine with me. :D

    --R :thumb:
     
    smk506 and BlankinLoud like this.
  3. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,785
    Likes Received:
    30,707
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Of course it will feed other types of anmo just fine. I sense though that you are satisfied with it the way it is.
     
    Roberteaux, BlankinLoud and smk506 like this.
  4. smk506

    smk506 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,504
    Likes Received:
    3,760
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    No way, we want tutelage!

    Tutelage!


    Cough up the walk through. :dude:
     
    Roberteaux, BlankinLoud and Frogfur like this.
  5. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,785
    Likes Received:
    30,707
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    How to bed your rifle's barred action the right way from a certified Armor. A Master Class on how to bed a rifle correctly-
    Pt. 1:


    Pt. 2:

    DO NOT try and bed the entire length of the barrel, no matter what anyone else tells you!
    When the barrel is free floated properly, a dollar bill will travel the entire length freely from muzzle to the reciever unobstructed.

    If you decide to do that route, we'll discuse that at some point. Maybe i can pay a visit over winter and we could do some things. Ya never know. I could be calling from the bar in Deland or..look'n for bail assistance is said location.
    Watch both of these all the way thru.

    Interestingly enough, this is very similar to classes i sat thru @cst. See, when you were in say, design and function or stocks etc, 65% of your evening class was just that..class. Demonstration, lecture, the whys and why nots.
    Not by an instructor, but by guys like Master gunsmiths like doc Kreckle and the like. Then you would return to your bench and finish whatever you would have been doing. Most classes lasted a full 5 evening week. Advanced students would get to leave class and go do what the class was about.

    On a nightly basis, doc oversaw the machine shop(lathes, mills fabrication and blueing sections. Every student had there own bench with a vise, locker etc. You had another student directly across from you.

    Lastly, working with bedding is not difficult.
    Get your shit together, laid out, know what you are doing to do, and why and do it.

    If you can't answer yes to every one of the above, dont do it. But expect results from someone else will be what it is. I reconmend Acura-gel. Ive used both the gel for ever.
    The glass is good too. Piss on $50.00
    Micro-bed is great stuff too if you can find it.

    This O' boy knows exactly what he is talking about. This is an outstanding set on the subject. A Master class on bedding a rifle.
    Tear'em up Rob!

    :cheers2:
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
    KTM, Hairless_Ape, Roberteaux and 2 others like this.
  6. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,785
    Likes Received:
    30,707
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    If you decide you want to take on the project
    Then I'll hekp ya out. Ramping a .45acp was what made me think i could go to school to be something. Easy job. Done by the time you smoke a..er...cigerette.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  7. Digger

    Digger Dingo Lover! V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    6,393
    Likes Received:
    9,862
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012

    Make that 3 lefties..shooting only.
     
    BlankinLoud, Frogfur and Roberteaux like this.
  8. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,785
    Likes Received:
    30,707
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Well..we all know it aint the one do'n the work..but the one holding the book that gets tired!..
    :dude: :applause:
     
    Roberteaux likes this.
  9. Roberteaux

    Roberteaux V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    26,207
    Likes Received:
    126,510
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Yes, I figure that I ought to take a crack at this little project! :thumb:

    Again: not all that upset that it won't feed HP reliably... but then again, barrels are semi-cheap, and I do have a Dremel sitting around and waiting for me to use it to destroy something... :laugh2:

    It's the specific type of polish I'm wondering about. I saw one guy saying he used Flitz, while another guy was talking about valve-lapping compound. I also have a little tub of some kind of polish that came with an accessory kit I purchased for my Dremel-- but all I know about the stuff is that it's that same orange-red that most of the valve-lapping compounds I've used were.

    Not sure how gritty it is... or if I even want grit at all.

    So yes, sir: if you've got comments and suggestions, rest assured that I'm all ears! :D

    And honestly: if you ever do decide to take a Florida vacation, you would indeed find yourself welcome at my humble home.

    We could go to the range, too. I learned that it opened back up today, though the RSO told me that it would be wisest to wear rubber galoshes as the place is still pretty mucky in most spots.

    Ah, the joys of being the member of a range that's out in the damned wetlands somewhere. The RSO laughed as he told me that the wildlife folks had to come out to trap a couple of fairly large gators who decided that since we weren't using the place, they might as well hang out.

    Again: any tips you have on this polishing job will be appreciated. I have this box of .45 ACP HP that's just been sitting in the ammo safe for about five years. I'm sure the stuff is desperate to be fired up.

    --R :D
     
    BlankinLoud, smk506 and Frogfur like this.
  10. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,785
    Likes Received:
    30,707
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    10-4
     
    BlankinLoud and Roberteaux like this.
  11. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,785
    Likes Received:
    30,707
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    I got to get this out of the way first.
    Absolutely the WRONG way to bed your rifle.
     
    BlankinLoud, smk506 and Roberteaux like this.
  12. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,785
    Likes Received:
    30,707
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Rob, can you oost a few angles to show how your feed ramp mates to the chamber ?
    So i can see the relationship.
     
    BlankinLoud and Roberteaux like this.
  13. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,785
    Likes Received:
    30,707
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    I got a boat load of anmo to do..
    20170926_151455.jpg
     
    BlankinLoud, smk506 and Roberteaux like this.
  14. Roberteaux

    Roberteaux V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    26,207
    Likes Received:
    126,510
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Sure thing... comin' up!

    --R :thumb:
     
    BlankinLoud likes this.
  15. smk506

    smk506 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,504
    Likes Received:
    3,760
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009

    How NOT to do something can be as helpful as an actual how to sometimes.

    I'm interested in how you go about handling a feed ramp too. I've done a little work on a few using varying polishes and methods, but never anything as abrasive as the compound Rob mentioned above.

    I have been hearing great things about mothers mag polish. It's a Walmart item so I mean to pick some up at some point just to satisfy my own curiosity.
     
    Roberteaux and Frogfur like this.
  16. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,785
    Likes Received:
    30,707
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Here is a teaser from Wilson Combat. Its the procedure i use, on probably 20 builds over the years. Tons in the very early 80s.
    and a place to start. Tomorrow I'll have up how to with more instructional details but this gets you thinking WC is a top tier firearms manufacture of high quality parts. Ive used them since the early 80s.


    Pretty simple, just takes attention to detail.
    Anyone can do this. This method is not going to remove enough metal to mess anything up unless your at it all night long. This just polishes the feed ramp. That is only 50% of the job. You have to throat the barrel as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
    BlankinLoud and Roberteaux like this.
  17. Roberteaux

    Roberteaux V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    26,207
    Likes Received:
    126,510
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Here are some photos of my reluctant .45's innards...

    Here's a shot of the mating between the barrel and receiver, with the barrel in the full-rear position, looking down at it on about a 60º angle:

    [​IMG]

    The black lines on the left of the feed ramp are not cracks. In fact, you can't see them with the naked eye or feel them with your fingers.

    Here's another one of the barrel/receiver, this time almost straight in from behind:

    [​IMG]

    Here's a few shots of the barrel alone:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    About that scratch-lookin' thing in the chamber in the second barrel photo: can't see it with the naked eye, and can't feel it with a toothpick. I blew in there, and I think it was a bit of cat hair that somehow ended up in my .45...

    Damned cat. He's even more of a nuisance than my daughter! And now I'm beginning to suspect that he's also been fiddling with my guns, probably while I'm asleep or something. How he got the combination to the safe, I dunno...

    Cigarettes keep coming up missing, too... :hmm:

    Anyway, not sure if these photos are of assistance, but now I'm off to study the video you just posted...

    Thanks again! :)

    --R :thumb:
     
    BlankinLoud and Frogfur like this.
  18. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,785
    Likes Received:
    30,707
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Rob yes on the Ruger 77 bedding pillars
    2017-09-26-18-09-02.jpg
     
    Roberteaux and BlankinLoud like this.
  19. Roberteaux

    Roberteaux V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    26,207
    Likes Received:
    126,510
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    I've been meaning to post this since last Saturday... but man, it's been one weird week, even though only three days have passed!

    But anyway: I went to the gun show in Daytona Beach last Saturday. I was mainly looking for reloading supplies, specifically bulk amounts of brass shell casings for .223/5.56.

    But along the way I had a big surprise: turns out that there's a new manufacturing outfit in Daytona Beach, and the organization is building AR-type rifles. And among the many tasty items on their display tables, I found barrelled receivers for .300 AAC Blackout! :thumb:

    The price was right: 190 bucks, and I could have my own swap-out upper and barrel chambered for this weird cartridge I only recently became interested in-- largely as a result of my participation in this thread. No charging handle or bolt carrier group, but eh: I've already got that stuff.

    So here it is:

    [​IMG]

    Here's the new upper installed on one of my lowers:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    What we have here is a 16" barrel with a 1:8 twist and a pistol-length gas system. I elected to purchase a model with a 14" upper rail because this rifle is most likely to end up serving as a brush gun with iron sights only, and I wanted to take advantage of a longer sight alignment plane. But, they had other models with much shorter rails as well.

    The upper/barrel assembly was manufactured in Daytona Beach by a group calling itself "Ghost Firearms". Here's a link to their site:

    https://www.ghostrifles.com/pages/about-us

    I went out on the Internet to see what their total inventory consisted of, and found that they gave me one HELL of a good deal on this upper. I went out the door with it for $190.00, though on the site they've got the same thing listed for $239.00... :thumb:

    Nice folks. I had a good time gabbing away with them, and said something about how now we've got Ghost, along with Spike's Tactical in nearby Apopka and The Arms Room in Orlando. But this is pretty cool, having Ghost so near by. I was invited to visit the manufacturing facility any time I wished, and was told that they could crank out pretty much anything I wanted right on site.

    I haven't fired the thing yet, but I really do like the look and the lines of this new upper. Here it is (on the right in the photo), side-by-side with one of the upper assemblies from a carbine I purchased years ago from The Arms Room:

    [​IMG]

    And another shot, on a background that seems to allow the eye to more readily appreciate the extremely sleek nature of the .300 BLK upper, on the left:

    [​IMG]

    The handling characteristics of this rifle are exquisite. Being something of a point-and-shoot freak, I found that this rifle will do that type of thing to perfection. The balance of the rifle with this upper is much to my satisfaction, and it's actually lighter as .300 BLK than with the .223/5.56 upper installed.

    ***************​

    As a handloader, the cartridge itself is very interesting to me: a sawed-off, necked-down .223 case topped with a .308 bullet. Until smk506 clued me in that .300 BLK could be loaded to supersonic levels, I wasn't interested in the cartridge at all. I simply don't feature or visualize any sort of use for a suppressed rifle that shoots subsonic cartridges at this particular point in time.

    But once I got a load of what .300 BLK is like as a supersonic cartridge... well, that's when my interest really kicked in. After studying its ballistics, I realized that what we had here was a cartridge that was in the same ballpark as the 7.62 x 39mm ammunition used with my old AK rifle... but with this new stuff being used within an AR platform.

    That's .300 BLK on the left, next to a .223 Remington cartridge:


    [​IMG]

    Pretty funky! :laugh2:

    I've always liked 7.62 x 39... I appreciated the type of penetration through brush afforded by the cartridge, and various other characteristics it has going for it. Though I do own one, the Kalashnikov is by no means my favorite rifle. But, I respect its reliability and record as a service rifle... but, to have an AR rifle that fires something so close to the old-school AK cartridge really appealed to me.

    Earlier in the day at the show, I had noticed a table upon which bags of re-manufactured ammunition were on display, with some of the cartridges being .300 AAC Blackout. Now that I had just purchased a new upper/barrel for the cartridge, I hastened back to the table and found myself in conversation with a young fella who is apparently just starting out in the ammo business.

    This kid's outfit is known as Class 3 Outbreak LLC-- which is a fairly whimsical name, seeing as it's also the name of some sort of computer game involving zombies that must be shot or otherwise eliminated by various means.

    https://www.class3outbreakllc.com/

    The kid himself was a real trip: long dreadlocks, a tee shirt with his company's logo, crust pants, and a very friendly demeanor that was generally more lighthearted and upbeat than what I'm used to finding in my fellow gunners. Turns out that this kid is in possession of industrial machinery and is cranking out ammunition by the ton. I picked up a couple hundred rounds of .300 BLK, and though I haven't yet fired up any of it, I can see that the components are high quality: it's once-fired Lake City brass, CCI primers, and 125-grain Speer TNT hollowpoint bullets, loaded up with mystery powder that I swore to the kid not to blab to others about.

    That last bit occurred when the kid realized that I mean to tool up and produce my own .300 BLK ammunition. A consummate businessman, he told me that he had oodles of once-fired military brass that he purchased from DoD, and could give me better deals than what I'm used to. He also gave me a discount on the loaded ammo I purchased from him, and urged me to stay in touch with him.

    "We long-haired shooters gotta stick together" he joked. :D

    That kid was really good to me. He gave me lots of tips about loading up .300 BLK, especially with regard to the manufacturing of cartridge cases. He also opined that whether I knew it or not, sooner or later I'd be looking for a suppressed SBR in the same cartridge.

    When I asked why he figured this, he grinned and said, "Because you're one of those guys who thinks that handloading is as much fun as shooting is... and you're the curious type who will eventually want to get into new concepts and performance parameters."

    Then he handed me his card. No surprise: turns out that this kid is a licensed manufacturer of suppressors and short-barreled rifles! :laugh2:

    So I made a couple new buddies there... with one last guy being a fella who sold me an armorer's wrench, vise blocks, and a couple other doo-dads that I foresee the need for in the immediate future... this last guy's outfit is called Alcor Arms USA, which boils down a a fella named Al who specializes in AR and AK rifles and accessories common to those breeds. No website, but I do have his card and like the others, he urged me to stay in touch with him-- and to come to him with questions of any sort at will.

    Man, I love gun shows! :)

    --R :thumb:
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
    LtDave32, Hack, smk506 and 3 others like this.
  20. Roberteaux

    Roberteaux V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    26,207
    Likes Received:
    126,510
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Okay-- thanks, bud!

    --R :thumb:
     
    BlankinLoud likes this.

Share This Page