ideal rate of twist (MLP firearms and shooting thread)

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by JMV, May 28, 2010.

  1. BlankinLoud

    BlankinLoud Senior Member

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    I say you might want to consider a Lothar Walther barrel. Reason? They are THE name in competition airgunning barrels. Their US division is located in Georgia.
     
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  2. SteveC

    SteveC Village Elder V.I.P. Member

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    If this is for your AR and you don't want to spend stooooopid money, I can recommend an FN barrel. You can get a very accurate CHF chrome moly FN barrel for a reasonable price. You can also get (and should also consider) a Melonite finished barrel from FN, that many will argue is more accurate than a chrome lined barrel.

    It all depends on how much barrel accuracy you want. Past a point, it becomes a game of diminishing returns. Finding the sweet spot in price vs. performance is a good goal.

    Ask yourself, "Is .5" MOA accuracy worth 3X+ the cost, compared to 1" MOA and am I capable of doing my part?"

    Chances are, the answer is no. Then, look at a nicely configured FN barrel.

    If you need much better, I can't help you. I have no understaning of that.
     

  3. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Interesting product to help zero the rifle to the scope-


    More information-
    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mod-zero-reinventing-the-rifle-zeroing-process/coming_soon

    The whole appeal for me anyway is a more natural upright shooting position. Not just with this but mounts and optics in general. It's the primary reason the strike Fire II replaced the EoTech with the Yankee Hill riser. It allowed me a more upright shooting posture, and that is the overall factor in the change.

    That was the point here, the unique windage and elevation feature, transferability from rifle to rifle and back, but again for me personally, I want to be as upright and natural as I can be with an M-forgery type. Any other rifle or shotgun requires me to obtain a good cheek weld to shoot properly and comfortably.

    These carbines don't require that at all the way I use mine for anything other than long range or iron sight use otherwise it's where the dot, or laser is and that's it. It is in that respect, no thinking or aiming involved.

    99% of my rifle shooting involves iron sights because I have to depend on those if all else fails. That requires their use. The dot, light and laser are primarily my benefit if I have to use the rifle in the dark or inclement weather, and from my point of view from experience the rifle that is only useful during daylight hours is 50% useless in real world situations such as public unrest or natural disasters. So I want to be in a more natural upright shooting position rather than hunkered down on that tube within reason. It's just the way I shoot the 15 now.

    But having said that when using either the EoTech or the Strike Fire, I never leave the sight picture inside the window when shooting so again shooting comfort is I feel important. To me anyway.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
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  4. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Oh..yeah
     
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  5. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    The Otis cleaning kit specific to the AR 15.
    These are extremely nice cleaning and maintenance kits that also include a belt loop where it can be worn on the belt, or on gear bag.
    2017-09-08-09-56-34.jpg

    2017-09-08-09-55-23.jpg
    This particular kit includes the bone, an excellent BCG cleaner. These really scrape carbon. This is by far one of the better portable cleaning kits out there.

    2017-09-08-10-01-16.jpg
    This has a good selection of cleaning tools along with 2 bore cables. One short, and an extention so useable for carbine or rifle. It is also equipped with a tube of CLP which i use allot of anyway.

    I keep an extra firing pin in there for baked potatoes over the fire later on. Great kit and i take it to field or the range. It also has a way to clean carbon off of the firing pin in seconds before using for said potato.
    2017-09-08-10-18-20.jpg

    2017-09-08-10-28-53.jpg

    Essential I feel.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017

  6. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    1 M
    Nice kit!!
     
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  7. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Well John got his scope yesterday. I spoke with him yesterday and provided him with the tracking number which he used and found it on the truck, out for delivery.

    I am really happy that I could give him the scope when I didn't use a carry handle weapon anymore, even though I do have a rifle. He will get good use from it and he is a MLP member and fellow gun nut. I'm happy I could pass it along.
     

  8. HardCore Troubadour

    HardCore Troubadour Senior Member

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    very cool.
     
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  9. ehb

    ehb Chief Discombobulator Premium Member

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    On the Mini-14, always wanted one and was thrilled way back when they 'said' they were coming out with the Ranch Rifle in .308.... Too many probs with it I guess....

    My old college roommate that works with fish & game state head shed had one (.223) and I shot it many times... Funner'n hell. Would I say mini-14 is 'better' than a qualtiy AR? Nawt. Nor would I say the opposite either... Better is subjective.... Better for what? Better at what?

    I will say for accuracy (which is also subjective, what level of accuracy), I would rather rely on my Colt Accurized Rifle AR15 with the 24" cryo bull than any of my other rifles...
     
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  10. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Well said ehb. Just personal preference.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
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  11. ehb

    ehb Chief Discombobulator Premium Member

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    I guess that would be similar to arguing 70 or 700.... Folks will argue that too....

    I likes em all.... :cool2:
     
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  12. SteveC

    SteveC Village Elder V.I.P. Member

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    Here's 20 rounds, fired offhand in 5.08 seconds at 100 yards, using my AR with the Lantac. My optic is a Vortex Strike Fire II RD, with no magnifier.

    The 7 shot group on the head was about 2" high and 2 rounds didn't score. Four in the A-Box and two in B. Meh.

    The center mass shot group was a little too scattered for me and I even had 2 rounds out of the A-Box. Again, meh!

    If this was a competitive run, it would have been a very good time, but the penalty time for the 2 non-scoring head shots would have killed my time/score.

    This stage that I was practicing is called "Smoke & Hope" - named after the stage in Steel Challenge, where you have big and close targets - the goal is all speed; it's a given that you will hit all the targets!

    The course of fire here is: In order to qualify a score, you need a minimum of 5 head shots, that score. Score = hit in A-box or B-box.

    After that, you can let it fly on the center mass score zone, as fast as you can shoot... the clock is your enemy.

    Your total score is all time. Penalty time is as follows:
    A-Box: +0 seconds
    B-Box: +1 second
    C-Box: +2 seconds
    Everything else: +5 seconds

    So, those two non-scoring head shot misses cost me 10 seconds of penalty time - essentially taking me out the match.

    The Lantac is helping me greatly, but I didn't do my job qualifying. Those two non-scoring flyers were awful. I should have lowered my POA so that never could happen. And, I should have only fired 6 shots, not 7 (always fire the extra shot, just in case).

    The 2 C-box hits center mass were just sloppy trigger work and should have NEVER happened. You just do not ever miss the A-Box, center mass.

    But, the joy for me was my time!!!! I was able to take almost a full second off my par time for this drill. This puts me well into the top-5 scoring range. I attribute that to the Lantac keeping me on target better.

    For perspective, a winning raw (before penalty time) time is usually around 4.6x to 4.7x seconds. And, folks who shoot those times, almost never have penalty time.

    So, I still have some work to do, but if I can keep my time right at the 5-second mark and lose the penalties, I will be solidly in the top-10 and have a great opportunity to be top-5+.

    I'm very stoked with these results!!!



    20@100 w:Lantac.jpg AR w:Lantac.jpg
     
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  13. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Exact sight I am currently using..
    20170908_211457.jpg
    Your rifle looks great.
     
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  14. SteveC

    SteveC Village Elder V.I.P. Member

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    Thanks!!! It's a Franken-AR, built on an Anderson lower, with a PSA upper (16" mid-length gas, FN CHF Melonite 1:7 barrel) using a Geissele SSA-E trigger.

    I really love that Vortex RD. I prefer a tube for eliminating any issues with sunlight and I find it much easier to shoot with 2 eyes with a Tube vs a Reflex. I wish the dot was smaller MOA... 4 is a bit too big, IMO. But, I got used to it. I'm considering the SPARC AR, which has a 2MOA dot. And/or, the Strike Eagle 1-6X. Vortex makes GREAT stuff!!!
     
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  15. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Youfr not kiddng they do. I love mine. My gun was a stock S&W sport 2. I've done a few things to it. Originally i had done a trigger job on it bringing the trigger from about 7.5-8lbs down to 3.5lbs.
    but recently installed the Wilson combat trigger I've had sitting around for 3 years. Nice trigger.

    i also added a wedge which i really like. Tifgtens things right up. Adding the A2 sight was an improvement over the Magpul sight, even though there is nothing wrong with them. Personal preference, added the Strike Fire 2 and brass catcher(i hate picking up brass and i want my own brass back.)
    of course the light and laser only benefit night use for self defense situations. Especially at night up in the mountains where i might need it more so than an in home use, too powerful for that. All that is mounted on a Midwest Industries front rail, made in the U.S.A.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
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  16. Hairless_Ape

    Hairless_Ape Doc Premium Member

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    Have you checked out the new Burris RT6? Same Philippines made glass as the MTAC, at the price of the Vortex SE. That's the route I'm going with the Mk 12 upper I'm currently building.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
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  17. SteveC

    SteveC Village Elder V.I.P. Member

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    Seems very similar to the Strike Eagle... pros? cons?
     
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  18. Hairless_Ape

    Hairless_Ape Doc Premium Member

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    The biggest pro would be the glass clarity. I don't know if you've ever picked up a Burris MTAC, but it's a significant improvement over the SE and it's Primary Arms equivalent. The RT6 also has a built-in quick throw lever that can positioned anywhere on the adjustment. The ring has slots in it that the arm (really an over sized tab) slides into. Burris' warranty is just as amazing as Vortex's. Reticle is subjective, but it seems to split the difference between the SE and ACCS reticles, as far as busyness.

    Downside? Maybe that it's a brand new optic, some might be cautious. But a made in PI optic backed by Burris' warranty...no worries for me.


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
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  19. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    I just got done looking at those. Seems two reticle options are available. CQ and the one pictured above. IF..you didn't have the dot already, best bang for the buck would be the combo with the Fast Fire 3. I can totally recommend them having one myself.

    The combo keeps you from having to buy a secondary sighting system. Remember, where the dot is the bullet follows. Couldn't be easier. Pretty good deal if you have use for both. Seems common sense demographics would dictate out west, the scope, and or the scope fast fire combo would be more desirable, while those east of the Great Divide night perhaps be better suited to some sort of dot or the likes due to shorter ranges and population centers.
    Not suggesting that anything you have available wouldn't be adequate any geographic location you might find yourself in, but certainly a consideration.

    Bought allot of Burris glass in the mid eighties. They still make great stuff. Like anything, you have to have an idea about what you're looking at to make an informed decession. Lot of that here.

    Here is my Vortex. Pretty much just like yours-
    2017-09-09-12-07-56.jpg
    2017-09-09-12-08-32.jpg
    I really like these sights. Her is a more shooter POV-
    2017-09-09-12-09-16.jpg
    What is nice is, the laser housing is not visible in the sight picture. It is below it, so I still have excellent visual access to the front sight too. Sweet.

    What I like about the A2 rear sight over the MagPul is the windage, and elevation on the backsight when i see a target at different ranges. 2017-09-09-12-09-44.jpg
    You can see the 300m and full circle 600m mark here. A twist of the elevation knob allows you 400m 500 and 600m. I like that.
    2017-09-09-12-10-27.jpg
    But also having windage too is handy..
    2017-09-09-12-11-50.jpg
    That is main difference between the A2 and the MagPul. More versatility and the A2 being an all metal true battle sight. Nothing more. From my view alone just a more more sight, AND! The military armor still had parts they could fix it at the armory if necessary.

    And, having a bayonet I want to be able to mount it on the lug. Problem one, the 16" barrel is just not setup for bayonet use. But!
    I found a way, and I'm going g to get one, just because I want the full capabilities of my gun even though there is no use other than the entended use.
    Check it out-

    Here is the skinny-
    http://www.triple-r-products.com/product-comparisons.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
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  20. Hairless_Ape

    Hairless_Ape Doc Premium Member

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    Absolutely, an effective setup is is dictated by your environment. A true Mk 12 has a Leupold 2.5-8x TS-30, which is way more magnification than I need in the NE. Our environment is a mostly woods and suburbia, with a decent amount of farm land in between. The odds of needing to take a shot beyond 300 yds is slim to none. And if I didn't live on a golf course you could realistically cut that number down to 200. Around here the wider field of view at 6x is far more useful than the extra magnification.

    The sight picture of the RT6 makes the addition of a fastfire unnecessary, IMO. You're only making the rifle heavier than it needs to be.

    1X

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    6X
    [​IMG]

    Pictures borrowed from a thread @ AR15.COM
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
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