ideal rate of twist (MLP firearms and shooting thread)

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by Frogfur, Jul 4, 2017.

  1. Humbucking

    Humbucking Member

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    Bill, I highly recommend Dan Wesson 1911s. I have a specialist in 45acp & it is an incredible gun for the money. I have had multiple high end/custom 1911s & the few Dan Wessons that I have handled have all been on par (fit & finish wise) with guns 2-3 times their price.


    [​IMG]
    I am also a big fan of the Colt Wiley Clapp model. I have a Govt & a stainless commander. I am not a fan of the lightweight model 1911s. I like a good old fashioned steel 1911. I did a little work to mine, but stock they are great 1911s!

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    No Robert. You are correct. I said my piece because there is hardly anyone here, and what I stated seems gun related fact. It is,also why I posted on the pistol. This is a gun thread. It was relevant and it's gone.
    Hey, how'd you like the views of the locks ?
     
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  3. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    I'm narrow minded when it comes to .45s. Sights are very easily replaced with several excellent choices. The thing you need to focus on is what the primary intended use will be.
     
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  4. bilbarstow

    bilbarstow Premium Member

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    Mostly, going "Bang" at paper. I live on a farm and have a natural backstop with my dam. I have a 25 yd. range in my back. But I justify it by calling it "home defense". I've got good CC and hi-capacity guns already, but I wanted to have a .45, particularly a 1911 of some kind, just for the fun of it. I might wear it around the farm, just to keep the coyotes scared.
     
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  5. Roberteaux

    Roberteaux Alien Hominid V.I.P. Member

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    Well, brother... :hmm:

    As I already kind of indicated: I'm aware that I'm not the Thread Contents Manager for this one-- or any other thread on MLP. You do whatever you want, we'll see how it works out in the long run. This is probably the last time I'll comment on the matter...

    However, there are probably more people lurking here than you'd suspect. But even if that's not the case, be advised: during your absence we actually had one member of MLP create a thread in the Backstage just to whine about the existence of this thread. :laugh2:

    I know that sounds ridiculous, but it happened. You have to remember: MLP is populated by some who are so doofus that they actually get themselves banned while squabbling over their preference in gear-- as if anybody could ever care what somebody (who is essentially not a music industry big shot) prefers or dislikes when it comes to things like amps, instruments, and etc.

    We've also got guys who routinely come forth to try and squelch conversations in progress in other threads, who attempt to derail threads and get them closed-- and so forth. Strange behavior, from people who do not own the site, do not moderate the site, have never paid any membership fee, and otherwise have absolutely no say over site content.

    But there you have it. I've even seen people who seemed irked about the Mad Hatter thread, even though they never posted there themselves. :rolleyes:

    So trust me when I say: some of them might figure this thread is Fair Game and it's probably a very bad idea to get going with all the pro and con stuff here. We already had to flame a couple of members who thought it would be a good idea to start in like that, and I'm surprised there haven't been more along the way.

    Meanwhile, the thread itself is a most unlikely gift from the admin and moderators, and we're lucky to have it. Might be best to keep the non-tech stuff to an absolute minimum in here.

    As for the locks you posted: very interesting! :thumb:

    --R
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
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  6. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    If you are simply punching paper and popping caps, factory sights will get you there. Real accuracy comes from other improvements and or modifications to the Colt(and clone) platforms. Some you can perform yourself, others require machine work.
    This depends on how you want to spend your hard earned money. Over the counter, or after the sale.

    The very first thing I would recommend is a better set of grips. Good grips can have a measurable effect on accuracy.
    The thing to remember here is, without modifications, the .45 acp was not designed for accuracy, but rather for military use in close range self defense with a reasonable stopping power. That does not take allot of accuracy.

    Secondly, barrel lockup is critical to good accuracy with the .45. If you customize, which it sounds like is unlikely for your intended use, then barrel/bushing fitting, or purchased together new would be the next step, along with high quality ammo.

    For what your intended use seems it would be, point and shoot at fairly close ranges. Without sights, grips, and light mods and good anmo, you could be all over the map on paper. Just like sex..the closer you get, the more fun you have with the Colt. 45 acp.

    Lastly, if you fancy the idea of new, or better sights realize that even though the front sight is staked, it is also easily removed for upgraded sight systems.
    The single, most important of all upgrades would be, if nothing else, .. a trigger replacement. Simple, one stop replacement that be the biggest help of all.

    Otherwise the suggestions here are all good.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
  7. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    Got the ashtray cover @Frogfur , THANK YOU!

    Oh..and I may have put one of these on layaway..:naughty:
    upload_2017-11-8_6-9-41.jpeg
    The new place by me is blowing them out for their grand opening...for $497 OUT THE DOOR..hell yes I put one down!!:D:D:D

    Seems like a LOT of AR for the money..the reviews have all been great!
     
  8. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Kris, great you got that. As for the M&P, that's what I shoot as well. That is a smoke'n price alright. Very good deal.

    The thing about these are, they have a few out of the box features that are quite nice. They shoot, and function without issue, and are true military spec (I hate that term)it's confusing and misleading. I know you will like it.
    Great choice!
    Oh! And make sure the magazine is in the box before you walk out the door. They are supplied with one 30 round mag where legal, or substituted where not.
     
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  9. bilbarstow

    bilbarstow Premium Member

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    Frogfur,

    Thanks for the well considered recommendations. I realize that the 1911 is probably the MOST upgraded/modified handgun available. Unfortunately, I live in the sticks, and options for gunsmithing around here are probably only slightly better than finding a good (local) luthier. The reason for my question in the first place was to get a "pretty good" configuration off the shelf. True, I'll most likely only be using it for recreational target use (I don't compete), but I'd like the measure of my performance to be my issue and not the gun's.

    So, to define the question a little more finitely, I'm looking for a factory configuration with decent set of sights (I like 3-dot, but it doesn't need to be tritium or even fiber-optic, since I only shoot in daylight). A nice trigger is a plus, but it doesn't have to be super light, just smooth. An accurate barrel/lockup (again, out of the box) would give me confidence that it's me and not the gun. I don't need (or really want) any bling-y cosmetics or a "prestige" manufacturer name, since I'm trying to keep the cost down-ish (I'd like to stay under $8-900). It doesn't have to have a rail, but if it did, I'd be tempted to add accessories.

    There is a local sporting goods store that has a Sig TACOPS on sale for $900. I thought it was a good buy, but it is really at the top end of what I want to spend, so I was looking for recommendations for something cheaper that will perform as well. Rob has me looking at the RIA again, as the Rural King carries those at sub-$600 prices.

    I know, a few dollars should not be the deciding factor. But for me, this is just an "impulse" purchase. I don't really NEED a .45, I just want one. I'm not obsessive about what I might get, but I figure my friends here at MLP can help point me in the right direction and let me avoid a regretful decision.
     
  10. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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    Oh I know I will! The reviews are nothing but stellar.

    Will be adding one of these too! (and of course a set of tritium irons)
    upload_2017-11-8_9-17-22.jpeg
     
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  11. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Easy.. look at the Ruger SR1911. Right out of the box, got allot of goodies with no work!
    Comes with great sights, 2 mags, machined slide and good trigger and more for around $650.00 or so.




    Maybe this helps.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
  12. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Polishing Brass -
    Most folks do not have an electric buffer and wheels. A very easy way to polish brass after it has been filed to its final form, is to use what is known as a silicon carbon waterproof abrasive paper.

    This sanding paper is made under the Carbirundum brand and is sold as Watersand No. 9-3010 and can be found at hardware stores and Sears.

    The chore of getting rid of every last speck and scratch left by the file can be greatly speeded up using this paper. It is available in wet, or dry packaging.
    For an ultra high gloss, rub with very fine steel wool after the Watersand, then buff it out.

    Etching with acid -
    To Etch either steel, copper or brass and or silver, heat the polished piece to the point that beeswax will flow when rubbed over the surface.
    Allow it to cool to room temperature. Scribe your name, or diagram onto the metal thru the wax using a ball point pen which will leave a rather wide line.
    DO NOT USE A SCRIBE!
    For other types of scraping use improvised tools to scrape the wax. Apply nitric acid and allow it to cut the metal for a full 45 minutes, more or less. Remove the wax, and there is your etching.
    Be careful with acid.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
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  13. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    I have my own Bluing formula for small parts. There is really no secret to blueing a firearm. The main thing to remember here is, the better the polish on the metal, the better the better the outcome of the blued part.

    If any off color were to appear it will be due to the fact that there is either impurities in the blueing solution, or the metal was not cleaned of oils, or the metal would not take the blueing properly in the first place.(Winchester 94 recievers.)

    So..by mixing 1 part Sodium nitrate, avaliable at most drug stores, to 2 parts of caustic soda and 2 parts water by volume,(DO NOT mix in an Aluminum pan) mix, and boil in a steel, or enameled container.

    Boil your parts at 280° to 315° actual(use a thermometer) for the best results until the desired color is obtained. Pistols can be boiled on the stove. Watch out Lol..this solution will eat holes in clothes, and take paint off of wood and table tops!
    This produces a very nice blue. Never EVER re-blue older valuable guns. You will destroy their value.
     
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  14. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Home made Bullet lube -
    Easy. I developed this for cast bullets.
    1lb. of beeswax
    1lb. of white Crisco
    One pound of mutton tallow
    5 oz of Bag Balm (the kind used on Dairy cows)mix over low heat. All natural ingredients with no petroleum distillate. This is a great bullet lube you can make yourself. I did for years.
     
  15. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Woot woot!..recieved my shot dipper, and powder measure for my scattergun today.
    Dumped one of my pre-loads in and the dipper set for 1 - 1/4oz of shot was dead on. Makes loading allot faster.
    Surprisingly, I was right on with the powder/shot measurements.

    Remember never weight black powder for loads. Black Powder is loaded by volume, smokeless powder is measured by weight.
    If you don't know what to load, just use the same volume of shot to powder.

    My son is drawing a black powder Elk tag next year, and were gonna bag one. Him..not me. I'm the camp cook.
    I'll have a fire going and chow when he he gets back. Mean while, I'll smoke up, look thru my stack of 60s Playboys and hope he gets one!

    FAST LOADING-

    A recruit in the American Colonies of 1768 would be made clear, that "no recruit to be dismissed from the drill until they were so expert with his flintlock, as to load and fire 15 times in three minutes and three quarters!"
    Would be the command.
    An idea of how fast it was expected to load a musket back then. That would eauate to one shot every 13 seconds! and frankly, that would seem quite hard to do today.

    Remember, in those days, conflicts depended more on a heavy volume of fire, rather than accuracy. Thus, a battle charge involving one regiment of 500 men on each side would mean the attacking force would suffer the effects of 1000 balls (bullets) in two volleys in the 20 to 25 seconds that it would take them to charge less than 100 yds. That guys, would make the second volley at a range of about 30 yards.
    Remember, that this was a solid mass of men, perfect target for rapid musket fire.
    Speed was everything!
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
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  16. Hairless_Ape

    Hairless_Ape Doc Premium Member

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    Even thought I'm huge fan of the MRO, I'm not impressed by the Patrol version, especially for the price tag. I find a kill flash on an unmagnified optic is noticeable and distracting, and couldn't care less about lens covers on a red dot (never needed them down range). The only only real positive over the standard MRO I see is that quick release mount. But when I can buy and MRO with no mount and a Geissele mount for under $500, I'll go that route every time.
     
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  17. ehb

    ehb Chief Discombobulator Premium Member

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    With my TC smokey stick, I use my speedloaders - sabot holders with P-dex pellets instead of loose.... Less chance of me dicking something up. ;)

    Watched my hunting partner at a period event before with his old vintage long ass smokey stick reload while moving and was mesmerized... Kept his long patch strip in his mouth and would rip a patch with his teeth and stick the strip end back in his mouth.... Anybody could tell that tweren't his first rodeo.... Those cats that compete in the big muzzle loader matches are amazing.... If I tried to load a smokey on the move, I'd be tripped over it, poked an eye out with the rod, spilled all my powder, dropped my ball, and if by some stretch of a miracle actually got it charged while moving, I'd probably fire the damn rod into the berm....

    Kinda makes you imagine what it was like when everybody had smokeys and had grown up shooting smokeys... Nothing like watching a bunch of experts lighting off at once.... Oh the smell of black powder smoke in the morning..... :)

    :cool:
     
  18. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Frankly Cordite does smell good. I actually enjoy BP more than modern fire arms. You are more connected to the the quality of the shot when you load it. Taylor made for rabbits to Rinos. Barely any recoil except for the biggest and baddest.

    LItike you said, the smoke, the accuracy (dont think you can't loose a shooting match to a cap and ball) that would be embarrassing. The big calibers, 50-54 and 58 can take any North American big game at reasonable range, and can bust targets the size of a beer bottle @75yds. and bigger bulls allot further.

    So i enjoy them both. You can buy a 6 pound cannon or, even a 12 pounder if you want, because of the BP status. Try gettn' the modern version. Lots of luck.

    But for me its something different, a break from the seriousness of moderen guns to a more personal experience, based solely on my ability to load on the spot. I like both worlds. BP kit guns are very enjoyable to build as well.
     
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  19. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    If you do much small work, these are just about invaluable.
    IMG_20171108_172923_9514.jpg
     
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  20. Humbucking

    Humbucking Member

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    I'm also a fan of the MRO. I have 3 of them on rifles. I heard a rumor that they may be coming out with a version that has the Primary Arms ACSS reticle. That would be cool. I know they make an ACOG with the ACSS reticle. I have the ACSS in my Primary Arms Platinum 1-8 & its a great reticle. With that being said, my go to AR15 has the Trijicon accupoint 1-6 with the red triangle. simple & very effective!
     
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