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Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by jlb32, Mar 15, 2017.
Ha ha!! I bought my first Lester at Dannys. I think gc pretty well did em in
6 more pages to 100 and seven months, have we yet confirmed that the Historics are history and that Henry J has killed them off?
Yup, the glory days are over. What I find interesting is almost all of the NGD's on here are usually for 2015 - 2017 R's. That was not really the case prior to the fallout. I guess I was expecting to see the older R's being bought up for peanuts and paraded around here.
The only R's currently for sale in my area are two R8's. One is a '01 the other a '13. Both have very nice flame and are all original with almost no play wear. Both are going for 3,400 which is hardly peanuts.
Very simply money talks.....my recent guitar purchases include a Fano, three danocasters, a road worn tele, and a Kendrick 118.
Gibson can discontinue, raise prices or go out of business, it won't affect anyone, ever. If you can't find a used LP for a decent price your not looking.
It's not Henry's call, it's the consumers.
I still have my aged '16 Standard and the THs are gone as the '17 MTMs are the same guitars at a better price point and I was able to get a TH speced '58 with a figured top and faded back.I like the '58 neck better than the '59 for gigging.
The TH '58s were all plaintops.
All great guitars. I would still have them all if I had the room.lol.
Historic's are not history, just now production limited vice production mass. They are still basically what were previously called Historic's, so only the marketing and production numbers have changed....but call it what you want they are still making them. But personally I believe the 15-16 TH's are starting to price well on the used market and in 10 years will be more desired than standard histories. I'm in the market!
I have to agree with you pappy, I think that the "Historics" are still being produced under a thin disguise of a different model name, but the all out reissue reproductions will be limited to special runs and direct orders. I also have the feeling that Custom Shop models are going to be harder to find in retail stores and eventually only found in the mail order market. Which is sad for me because I like to visit shops and experience the hunt.
So I've got some questions:
Can anyone confirm that the 2017 R7, R8 and R9s all came with '59 profile necks?
This would mean the only difference between them would be weight (lighter wood reserved for R9s) and finish or degree of figuring in the top, right? IF that's the case, this would be the only year thus far that they've done that (no differences in neck profiles).
Does anyone have a 2017 R7 or R8 that doesn't have a '59 profile neck?
Was it part of a special limited order?
We're ALL the 2017s a special limited order?
The box for my 2017 R8 says "Plaintop PSL". Gibson says
that PSL stands for Pre-order Special Limited run (i.e. Preordered by a dealer, in a limited quantity). Many of you have seen the pics of my guitar (see my avatar pic); it's not a plaintop by any means (I'm not complaining). But it does have a '59 profile neck.
I don't think Historics aren't done; they're just M2M now - OR PSL. And as long as there are dealers like The Music Zoo, Wildwood Guitars, House of Guitars, etc, placing limited run orders, they'll be available in stores for people to buy.
... until 2020 or there about when the Historic Reissue name/brand is relaunched at 2020 pricing! With even more accurate Historic appointments. They'll probably start embedding Ted McCarty's DNA in the 2020 Reissues.... for a small sum of $2,000,000 each.
All of the 2017 R8s/R9s I've seen/tried (own 2 myself)... have more or less the same neck profile. Supposedly a '59... but what exactly does that mean anymore???
The 2017 R9/R8 are all pretty consistently between .90-1.00 inches in depth when measured at the 1st and 12th fret respectively. Some small variations with the 1960 R0s more around the .82-.95 inches.
Has it been established for a fact that lighter woods are reserved for R9? I've seen plenty R8s as light as R9s in the 2016 range. From what I've seen on the internet stores which advertise weights of Historics they sell, it seems to me that, on average, R8 weigh the same as R9s.
That's because all the recent Historic LPs are made from Fiji mahogany which grows like a weed and is of lower density.
The British planted mahogany plantations on the island of Fiji just after WWII and it is already big enough to be harvested.
I'm not claiming it's any better or worse than Honduran mahogany. It is what it is.
But I mean, never mind the type of mahogany they use, as long as they use the same sort of mahogany for both R8 and R9, it means they don't really reserve the lighter-weight wood for R9. At least not since 2016.
Yeah there are no Gibby dealers around here except GC and even that is an hour drive. My last two I bought from remote dealers after conferring with sales folks and getting detailed neck measurements and hi res pics. Both offered 48 hour return if you don't like but both were excellent. I really liked dealing with Dave's he gives decent trade values and always had nice inventory. Sad to seem them go!
Well, you might be right. It used to be the case that lighter wood was reserved for the more expensive R9s, but maybe that's not the case recently. That would mean the ONLY difference between 2017 R7, R8 and R9s is finish/amount of flame (sometimes).
The old chart...
I don't believe that to be accurate. I'm just pulling from memory but there has never been a consistent R9s are all lighter than R8s statement that I can recall. Even if they did it was not a significant difference as all the 8s and 9s I have dealt with were between 8.5 - 9.5. I had an 03 57 LPC with a HOG top and that thing weighed over 10lbs. So may they shoved the heavier pieces towards the LPC's? I do believe the consistency of the neck profile was an intended change as the general presumption is the 59 profile is the holy grail. Plenty of R7s and R8s had monster necks and the variance from guitar to guitar was maddening in Imo!
ps; I just saw Heinz' post, so maybe at some point they were trying... IDK but sometimes goals and realities differ....but was there ever a production year where all R9s were lighter?
Never been a fact, just a myth. My R8 is lighter than the majority of R9 I tried of same year, 2016. This doesnt mean R8 are lighter, but sure its not the other way around.
Is GC even selling the new CS Standards? What I mean by that is, like the old days with the Historic's can I walk into GC and see them hanging, check them out, play them and then make my decision? Or is it a sight unseen M2M deal? I'm srs btw.
I have not seen any CS Standards at GC, but for the time being CS guitars are at retailers just not at as many retailers that we had the pleasure of. Unless Gibson changes their agreements with retailers I'm afraid there will be fewer stores stocking Custom Shop Gibsons. With that said I'm sure Guitar Center has the platinum room online you can order from with a large selection.
Not aware of CS standards at GC either, in fact Im sure they have none. They are too far in debt to order and pay up front. Sorry if I confused, was just commenting on scarcity of dealers.