Henry possibly discontinuing Custom Shop Reissues??

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by jlb32, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. mudface

    mudface Senior Member

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    Super Cool,....now I'm jealous.......You and your family have a wonderful and Merry Christmas :cheers:
     
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  2. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

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    Thanks Mud, you too mate. Hope you have a great day & great Christmas with your Family.

    Cheers, Rudi
     
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  3. Heinz57

    Heinz57 Senior Member

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    Gibson Brands has reached a deal with GSO Capital Partners, one of its existing lenders, in order to push back a loan payment by approximately two weeks to December 15th...

    PE News says that Gibson has posted improved third quarter (ending in September) results. According to their report, Gibson’s sales of musical instruments increased 7% to $75 million…although overall revenues declined a disappointing 15% to $239 million. The reason for the overall revenue decline, they said, is “because of a sharp decline in the electronics side of the business.”

    https://www.strata-gee.com/gibson-debt-deal-delay-payment/

    HenryJThePitch.png
     
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  4. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

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    GSO = Blackstone = Ouch.

    :cheers2:
     
  5. lpthomas

    lpthomas Premium Member

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    Going to be an interesting next year... 7 percent is not bad though, is it? If this trend continues, the core brand might be safe.

    Then again, I don't really understand any of that.
     
  6. PierM

    PierM Black & Gold Premium Member

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    Not really, unfortunately.

    They've a 520.000.000$ debt, and this is why they are selling many assets, trying to grab some cash. They are exposed with plenty of loans, and they didn't even manage to pay back one of them, in time for November, so they asked to move that payment to December.

    This year they faced a -15% decline, which is not really a good news, considering their situation.

    That 7% it's just about the last third quarter, limited to musical instruments (remember Gibson it's not only guitars), but that is a number extrapolated from its context, which is -15% decline. It's like saying I sell A, B, C, D and E.... and all this production faced a -15% decline this year, while just E, had a +7% limited to the last third quarter. It's misleading use of the data, which is typical Henry style. :)

    Also, I'm pretty sure that 7% it's just the typical end of the year raise, due the new lineup launch, and old lineup price drop. Pretty much happen every year.

    That is looking very close to a bankrupt.
     
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  7. lpthomas

    lpthomas Premium Member

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    That makes sense, thanks! I should have stopped at "going to be interesting" then :rofl:
     
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  8. PierM

    PierM Black & Gold Premium Member

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    We will see this next summer. For that time they have that huge payment that they for sure can't make, so for that day they need to refinance the entire debt (half billion subdivided in bond debts and bank debts), which mean new loans, new interests, more debt. :) This is how works for many companies in similar situations.
    The position for Gibson is worse btw, because their rating it's very close to junk, with a garbage outlook.... which usually mean will be VERY hard to access more loans, and when this happen it usually bring an insanely high interest quota.

    Of course, if they will not manage to refinance that debt (because paying it's impossible), they'll be facing a default.

    It's for sure "going to be interesting", this summer. :)
     
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  9. Heinz57

    Heinz57 Senior Member

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    And Guitar Center was downgraded to CCC-...

    ccc.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
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  10. hoss

    hoss Senior Member

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    GC will take Fender down, too :(
     
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  11. lpthomas

    lpthomas Premium Member

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    Interesting... do they own part of it or where's the connection?
     
  12. alnico59

    alnico59 Senior Member

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    ^ I honestly believe GC going away (if they do) will eventually help the used gear market. Their 40 day no hassle return policy is cancerous. It's a huge spoiler and causes major burnout. I know guys who buy tons of stuff with no intention of keeping any of it. Even bringing it to gigs before happily returning it. Thanks GC.
     
  13. paruwi

    paruwi Kraut-Rocker Super Mod Premium Member

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    Absolutely :thumb:
     
  14. PierM

    PierM Black & Gold Premium Member

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    I don't think Gibson brand it will crack and disappear. Even if they default the debt, doesn't mean there's not new investors buying the shebang, changing CEO and everything, and moving forward. Could be a new course, maybe smaller than now, like sort of what they did at Heritage guitars.

    I still believe that major problem to solve for Gibson, is to cut off its own head, aka Henry.
     
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  15. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

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    .........we just hit 2018.

    Bring it on.

    :cheers2:
     
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  16. hoss

    hoss Senior Member

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    They have owed F. millions for years as they do not pay all their bills but at the same time are Fenders largest reseller so F. can not simply drop them as a dealer. It was in the SEC filing when Fender tried to go public years ago and it was the main reason the IPO never happend.
     
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  17. lpthomas

    lpthomas Premium Member

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    Couldn't imagine that too. To be set up anew with different management, smaller output, less staff unfortunately though, might even be chance for Gibson? The brand and their IP has to be worth sth. still. We'll see. Thanks for the input!
     
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  18. hoss

    hoss Senior Member

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    Or a Chinese investor might buy the brand and copyrights to the guitars...
     
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  19. Mosster47

    Mosster47 Senior Member

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    Guitar prices are why guitar companies are struggling.

    I bet Squire and Epiphone aren't doing terrible. They make surprisingly good guitars at very reasonable prices.

    Let's take the big three; LP, Strat, Tele. The reason why you think an LP is cool is because of the Les Paul Standard, not the LP Custom Shop True Historic. The American Standard Strat and Tele are why people like them, not the Custom Shop 54 Relic.

    I'm 34 years old and am kind of an odd ball for my age group on how much I like guitar and how much I play. When I was 16 years old I worked all summer to buy an American Strat. I got a 97 Strat Plus, still have it. It's my baby. It cost $675 and was their highest end model, period. Today an Am Standard is like $1,800 and it's not very high end since the Custom Shop throws out $4k guitars like water.

    The same with Gibson. If you buy an LP Standard today it's pushing $3k but it's basically an entry model since TH's are pushing $10k.

    I get price gouging all the Baby Boomers who have all this money sitting around with endless free time and a short time left. That was always going to happen, but these companies that have been around forever and laid the foundation abandoned the future for a quick flash and it shows now. The Baby Boomer guitar buying craze is pretty much over and now Gibson and Fender are staring down the barrel of bankruptcy.
     
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  20. hoss

    hoss Senior Member

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    All the new Coin Millionairs are going to buy other shit than guitars.
     
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