Help - Measurements -Frets TH x Historic Reissue Line .

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by JUNAE9, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. JUNAE9

    JUNAE9 Member

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    Hello,
    I am finalizing the specifications of my M2M project and the
    seller said True Historic frets are the same as the Historic Reissue line (2013/2014).
    The 2013/2014 historic reissue line uses the medium jumbo (I guess so).
    Could anyone tell me the measurements of frets used in True Historic?

    Thanks.
     
  2. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

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    ........have you Emailed Gibson?

    :cheers2:
     
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  3. JUNAE9

    JUNAE9 Member

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    The seller got this information with the Gibson Rep.
     
  4. PierM

    PierM Premium Member

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    Same frets, slightly different dress.
     
  5. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

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    My '14 R9 and '15 TH have frets of the same width but different heights. The TH feels more vintage and allows more contact with the fret board while bending. The '14 spec has taller frets that have less fret board 'feel'.

    The difference is easily felt. Enough so that I adjust to the TH as all my other Gibsons use the taller frets.

    It's about the same adjustment made when I play a vintage fretted Tele as compared to a modern medium jumbo Tele.

    If'n I was ordering a new axe I'd request the taller fret wire. :acoustic:
     
  6. JEDHRMC

    JEDHRMC Junior Member

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  7. jamman

    jamman Premium Member

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    I PM'ed the OP with ^^^ but, for everybody, here's the meat of the fretwire part of that interview with EW .

    EW: “On original Les Pauls, the fretwire started out very narrow, medium height, then it went bigger. The original fretwire on ’59s was about 0.046-0.050” tall and 0.094-0.096” wide. For many years, that’s the size that we used on reissues. But on True Historic, we changed the height.

    “The one thing that you notice on every old guitar that comes in that hasn’t had jumbo frets put in over the binding is that the frets have been dressed down; they’re somewhere between 0.033” and 0.036” tall, the width is still there, but when you feel the guitar and you play the guitar, the binding is rolled and all that and you don’t feel the fret ends on the guitar. Now we start out with 0.036”-tall fretwire, then the guitars get Plekked and they get finished out, so some of them are 0.034”, some are 0.036”.

    IMO , In hand , the different in fret size is easy to feel . 1 second and you know they are not Standard Historic type .... Some like them , some don't . IMO if you bend strings a lot . It makes a job of it . Also at your normal Gibson Action spec set up . you need to press down on the string harder/more . PITA : for me . Chords are a bundle of joy ....
    Adjusting to them can be done(in time for me) , but when using different Gibson's , makes it weird and seem like work playing them ...
    .010 + of an inch ,starting off with , can feel huge .
     
  8. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

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    I think EW missed an element of the 'feel' of the lower frets on vintage guitars. A vintage or older guitar that has had a few fret levels on it also has fret board 'wear'. Mostly between the 12th and 1st fret, but especially in the first five frets, the fret board has recessions/divots from play wear. With those recessions you gain back some of those .001"s that were lost in the leveling process.

    A great example of this type of wear is Brian Mays' original homemade guitar. He states the frets have never been replaced and I believe it. Some of frets are worn down to the tang. He also states it still plays fine. He's definitely one of those 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' guys.

    The only thing that makes this possible is the fret board wear that allows the string to cleanly touch the fret (or what's left of it). Brian's guitar is basically naturally scalloped. When I pick up an older well played guitar this natural scallop is one of the first things I notice. The scallop along with the lower frets has a very distinctive feel. Just lowering the frets and ignoring the fret board does not accomplish this same feel.

    At ~ 4:35 Brian speaks about how his original handmade guitar has never been re-fretted.

    From WIKI: "At the end of the Queen + Paul Rodgers tour in 2005, May had several revisions made to the original Red Special, including having the zero fret replaced for the first time (this had been judged unnecessary at the time of the 1998 restoration) and making a larger opening for a new jack. Despite all of this work, the original frets (other than the zero fret) have never been replaced."

    I searched for, but couldn't find, the recent image of Brian's fret board showing his fret wear. Maybe someone will post it.
     
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  9. mudface

    mudface Senior Member

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    Mr May's guitar was featured in "Vintage Guitar" magazine and had some interesting photos and drawings including the vibrato design. Close ups of the frets show deep divots from wear and are pretty nasty, but he swears it intonates perfectly. I can't recall what issue it was, but it was in the last couple of years. :cheers:
    Great vid Mr DanD.
     
  10. JUNAE9

    JUNAE9 Member

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    Someone who has a Gibson Standard CS 2017
    could tell me if the frets (2017 line) are the same as the Gibson Historic Reissue 2013/2014 line?
     
  11. JUNAE9

    JUNAE9 Member

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    I continued my research, and with the help of some friends, I discovered that the frets of the 2017 line are really the same TH.
    For those who have interest, I did another research and discovered the measurements of the Jescar frets (stainless steel lasts a lot more, but it is a matter of liking it or not).

    Medium Jumbo Jescar Size:
    https://www.jescar.com/shop/jescar-fret-wire-51108/

    Jumbo Jescar Size:
    https://www.jescar.com/shop/jescar-fret-wire-57110/

    I understand that dunlop and jescar have similar measures, however, each brand has a different numbering.
     
  12. JUNAE9

    JUNAE9 Member

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    Hey, I was just thinking something.
    If the new Slash R8 is true historic and uses, according to the wildwood site,
    the frets 22 - Medium - Jescar FW50078 means that perhaps this is the standard used in TH.
    What do you think?
     
  13. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

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    Looks like you'd be getting the TH spec 'shorty frets' with the new Slash models. The switch cover also denotes this model as a "2017 True Historic".

    Compared to past TH '58 pricing, a MAP 0f $5999 for a signature model is a deal.
    I'm guessing they'll move quicker than the Ace or Nielson models that are also TH spec.
    The Ace and Nielson were '59s and not '58s but they are now priced within 1K of Slash.

    AT this point price wise I'd have to ask myself if I was a fan boy or if I wanted a nice flame top TH. :hmm:

    I'm no Ace fan but, given this choice, if I was in the market for a new TH I'd pay the slight (at these prices) up-charge and get a discounted Ace.
     
  14. jsilver6

    jsilver6 Junior Member

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    The vast majority of the Gibson Custom Historic guitars use the Jescar FW45100 fret wire. This is 0.045" tall and 0.100" wide as spec'ed out by Gibson. They have used other profiles for specific artist models but this is the main wire used on those guitars.
     
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  15. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

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    According to those measurements the Slash got a fret size closer to medium jumbo than the typical Historic fret. That's worlds away in size from previous TH models.

    That's a big plus in my book. :thumb:
     
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  16. PierM

    PierM Premium Member

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  17. jsilver6

    jsilver6 Junior Member

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    The vast majority of wire used by Gibson Custom/Historic if FW45100. In the few instances where an artist or iconic model requires a different fret size Gibson will use the appropriate size.

    The Slash model did in fact use the FW50078 wire. This is a size that is close to the original '58 size wire before Gibson transitioned to the wider size in '59.

    I'm not comfortable with descriptions like "medium-jumbo" since almost 1/3rd of our available sizes could fit that description, and they would be quite different from each other.

    To return to the OP question, the historic wire size is FW45100. Does the factory mill down the height to replicate the wear on an old instrument? Not sure, but you need to decide if you want a guitar with naturally worn feeling frets, or do you want to play on a guitar that suites your playing requirements. For me, it's FW51100, but I'm not pulling the FW45100 out of my Historic '58 LP. But I did change to FW47104 stainless steel in my '61 Les Paul SG, and it plays much better than stock.

    Thanks for listening,
    Jeff
     
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  18. jamman

    jamman Premium Member

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