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Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by Detector, Aug 7, 2017.
I could try to explain it, but your brain would explode.
Production line made yes, I guess anything produced in those kind of numbers is going to technically be a production line. I don't argue that point. My point is more of who is on the production line. Not some 19-year-old kid that put his hair up in a net to go apply for the job. All long time employees with great skill sets. From the painters to the binding scrapers. After meeting so many of them, they all are very passionate, skilled workers that take great pride in their job.
Are you saying us guys with LONG HAIR cant get a JOB!!!!! ?
Yerp I am a cabinet maker and totally agree. People pick and choose what they dont like.
Reminds me of...
And the sign said "Long-haired freaky people need not apply"
So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said "You look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do"
So I took off my hat, I said "Imagine that. Huh! Me workin' for you!"
Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?
And the sign said anybody caught trespassin' would be shot on sight
So I jumped on the fence and-a yelled at the house
"Hey! What gives you the right?"
"To put up a fence to keep me out or to keep mother nature in"
"If God was here he'd tell you to your face, man, you're some kinda sinner"
Cool story, bro
Damn Hippies ,,,, Oh ,,, I forgot , I used to be 1 .
Agee Freebyrd . It's not like Gibson picks up "day workers" in the parking lot . and has them build guitars 20 minutes later .... hope I didn't just give HJ a money saving idea just now
Think what QC might turn into then ......
Although , it should really help with Re-sale value of Used Gibson's
It's incorrect to describe old LPs as luthier-made, or even as being made by expert craftsmen. There were plenty of good, dedicated worker in the factory then, but it was a factory. Gibson has always been extremely inconsistent in its build quality. And there's nothing particularly tricky about the old LP build, and where it does get somewhat tricky (neck set) you'll see a fair amount of variation. Sure, it's hard to copy those old guitars exactly, but that's an entirely different matter from making them to begin with, which was simply not particularly hard nor fantastically executed. If those old guitars have great value, it comes from factors other than the technical skills of the builders. Gibson had some great workers -- like the guy spraying the bursts! -- but plenty of indifferent ones. You can even find '58s and '59s with off-center seams, or misplaced bridges, for crying out loud.
I can't believe this is still going it seems to be a sore point on both sides of the fence.
The ri's errelitive of what people do or don't think of them. They are still mighty fine guitars in their own right.
Cool. Let us know when "Moreles Guitars" gets off the ground.
You think it was easy to formulate the start of a new line of "guitars" When Gibson didn't make Solid body guitars ???
Please research what want into making these ... a lot went into the designing concept and then building the Original LP . Geez , just to get Les Paul's name on the guitar was a job ...
There's a saying .. If it were easy ,,,,,Everybody would do it ... So , (on a mass scale) it appears not to be so easy ...
You are are correct about workers ,. Nothing has changed up to today . Some care more,on some days and some care less or more then they care on other days) Monday, Friday, Paydays and the day after Payday are almost never Good days for anything getting done . QC of the LP was not the #1 important object at the time ... The LP wasn't the main focus of Gibson .
It's more then the Paint on a guitar that makes it valuable . As time went by , Those guitars (not all of them either) became a icon for a way of using a guitar Gibson (And Fender) really had very little insight it would do . The Numbers that are left today (of good 1's) is part of the overall picture . The Sound and playability 1 guitar has is the deciding factor as to if it special . Demand is also a key part . Of course Investment/investors also are a large part of the big picture ..
Try getting the Woods that Gibson or Fender used for them Today ... All the parts used for those guitars , they are what they are and finding a set of pups that ='ed a really good set of PAF's was slim to none for many years ... Yeah The ABR-1 was just laying around waiting to be used on a LP .... Right ???
New or Old , IMO Way over priced ... But Gibson /and collectors seem to still sell them .
Well, if we look at the skillset of the Gibson line vs a Luthier, then the former would be extremely skilled in their area, vs a 'Luthier' who is merely a jack of all trades master of none (by comparison).
So by the time the Gibson is built by its various workers, you would have a guitar built to an equal or higher than the 'luthier'.....making the MASSIVE
assumption that your said luthier is actually a really good builder - a BIG assumption that as the word only means someone who builds a guitar.
And according to the standards of the day, the quality was right up there. I think if you look at even the moon landing equipment (which really is rocket science) you would see QC that would fail today's standards.
And no part of building an electric guitar is actually overly hard.....as in there is no high standard needed. In many ways this idealised 'luthier' workshop would be using way more crude methods than your supposedly poor QC Gibson.
This is a great long running thread, but I am still stuck on the original post. Nobody told me there was a reissue craze going on. A retail manufacturer offers a premium product, at a premium price, along with their standard product line. They make a number of reissues in the custom shop. If they sell them all, then they make more. I didn't realize there was a "craze" going on. I have a 99 R7. Love it. Bought it used. It is a quality product. I also have a 2016 Traditional. Love it. Bought it new for the exact same amount I bought my R7 used. It is a quality product. I doubt I will ever buy a new reissue at today's prices, but you never know. If I become "crazed" at some point, I just might. Carry on.
To be honest though, I paid the same amount for for the new Trad as I did for the used R7. But since buying the Trad, I have upgraded the pickups, rings, harness, toggle, jack, bridge, and tailpiece to get it closer to a reissue. So in essence, I actually spent more on the Trad than the reissue. Go figure.
I think after 173 posts the point isn't going to get and clearer.
I've been playing since before my 7th birthday. I'm 62 now. I've been a Gibson player since I got my first one, a burgundy Mist 335 in 1967. I owned 2 20th Anniversary Customs, a white and a black back in the early 80s then switched to Fenders. My first Les Paul in years was an '11 Honey burst Trad Pro with 50s neck. Great guitar. Then I bought an 11 Trad plus in Iced Tea. I liked it even better. I was so happy with these guitars I bought a '12 Pelham blue Trad Pro. What could be better? My cousin collects Reissues. He owns at least 30. 3 Jimmy Pages, a Pearly Gates, Joe Walsh, (awesome guitar) Dicky Betts and a slew of 57, 58 and 59s and a host of custom shop SGs. I started going to his home to jam and give him some lessons. I thought he was nuts spending that kind of money on a Custom shop when there were perfectly good Gibson USAs for a third of the cost. ( I bought all of my Trads lightly used for $1500 or less.) Until I strapped one of his on. Nothing fancy. A plain top '58. I am by no means a "cork sniffer". I'm a working guitar player. But when I put that 58 on it came to me immediately. I didn't even have to strum it or play a lick. I just wrapped my big meat hook around that FAT neck. I got it immediately. It was around a pound and a half lighter than any of mine, and the neck was massive compared to the so called 50s profiles on the Trads. Looking down at the guitar everything seemed to be in a perfect straight line. The tail was screwed all the way down into the body and the action was lower than any of mine, without buzz. There wasn't that pesky out of tune "G" string after a subtle bend that I couldn't seem to shake on all 3 of my trads. The nickel hardware had a beautiful patina. The tortoise side markers screamed subtle quality. The binding was the right color. The finish was thin with some nice light checking. The roswewood was darker, I loved the look of the tall pickup rings. The edges are softer and rounder. This guitar was special to me. I saw the light. I played better on it. I sounded better on it. I felt better playing it. The difference was like driving (I'm old, so some of you may not be able to relate) a Pontiac Tempest and then jumping into a GTO. A Malibu vs an SS 396 Chevelle. Both the same cars with performance and trim upgrades. I liked the look of the ABR vs the Nashville bridge. Suddenly that shiny flamey Trad Plus looked and felt almost toy-like to me. Yes. The Reissue was that much better.
So everytime I'd visit him I'd play his reissues and leave mine home. Some of his play and feel better than others but one thing I'm sure of. They ALL play and feel better than my Trads. Period. I prefer a fat neck but even his R0's even feel fantastic. Same thing with his SGs. I have a 61 Reissue. He has a few custom shop 62 reissues and some Customs. All are light as a feather, sport nice chunky necks and just look and feel better than my 61 USA Reissue. And I love that guitar. So, yesterday I saw a 2013 '58 on my local Craigslist. Well not in my town. About an hour away in Akron, But close enough. The seller was a guy I was familiar with. He always has at least 5 or 6 various Gibsons listed every day. And the price was about as low as I've ever seen any 57 or 58 He described it as "high excellent" condition and it had the COA and all the hang tags. So I called him. I wasn't really prepared or planning on buying a new guitar this weekend, but at that price I knew it was my chance to get into a Reissue (fairly) cheap. Less than the price of a new USA Standard.
I called him and as Luck would have it, he was getting ready to travel to Pennsylvania to visit family for the Labor Day weekend. He was coming right by my house. He could bring the guitar with him and I could try it out. Nice. Saved me an hour trip one way. When we hung up I immediately ran to my bank before it closed and took out the cash in case I liked it. He arrived with a 5 latch brown case in perfect condition. I opened it up. It looked beautiful. A fairly plain top bourbon burst with some nice subtle flame if you catch it at the right angle. It is now mine. I just got home from an early afternoon hour set my band played for a cancer benefit for a friend and my new (to me) 58 was the only guitar I brought. It was everything I had hoped it would be. I play classic rock through an Orange TH30 with a 212 and it was just perfect. The volume pots work as they should. It fades out nice rather than cutting out abruptly with 2 more notches to go like my Trads do. It's nice to be able to roll off my volume to clean things up It's an amazing guitar. My Ice Tea Trad is prettier (to some) if you lay them next to each other. But that is going up for sale soon. So is the Honey Trad Pro. The Pelham will stay because it's a real looker and the best player out of the three. And you can't have just one Les Paul. The reason I posted this long winded comment is because I cannot stress how much of a difference there is between the Reissue and the USA. I could definitely have lived without the 58. Before I knew what I was missing my Trads were perfect. For me to say "Try one and you'll get it" simply is not enough. It wasn't for me. If somebody is reading this and is on the fence or not convinced, then I strongly urge you to try a Reissue. I too was in doubt. I changed the rings on my Trads. I put the amber switch tips on. I put the Historic TRC on. I put the pointers on. I put the ABRs on. I put the gold top hats on. It improved their looks. That's it. Like the "lipstick on a pig" saying. I hope if I didn't put you all to sleep, that this made it a little clearer. Will I ever buy a brand new Reissue? No. I have 2 kids in college and I do not have that kind of money. But I can tell you I'll never buy another USA. Unless a nice Firebird comes out in a custom color with a Maestro. As long as there's reasonably priced used reissue Les Pauls out there I intend on going that route from now on.
Any chance of a new guitar day with pics?
NGD!! There's one with the Trad.
And here's the Pelham. I told you she's a looker!
Thanks so much. WOW!!!