Helix+L2M+Vocals many Questions:)

Discussion in 'Amp Modeling' started by CaptainT, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. CaptainT

    CaptainT Senior Member

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    Hey guys,

    I am planning on buying a Helix at the end of the year, together with a Line6 L2M FRFR Cab.

    As a band we are planning on setting up a Line6 PA in the near future, so the L2M will be my Monitor cab later.

    The L2m will be the first cab of our Setup and it won´t belong to the band, I want to buy it myself as a part of my personal home and stage Helix Setup.

    Is it possible to run my Helix and vocals at the same time into the cab or do I need a mixer/vocal preamp for that?

    Can I run the vocals over the Helix into the cab, as there is a mic preamp (or is this preamp for a different use?)

    Can I use one L2M as a Monitor for two Helixes (two guitarists) or does every guitarist need his own monitor?

    I never used a PA before, so I am a little confused:)
     
  2. Donal

    Donal ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Premium Member

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    Firstly, also have a look at the L2T as this gives you additional mixer included for practically the same price ;)

    As to your specific questions:

    Not on the L2M but the L2T has this function.

    Yes this will work and there are some great setups for mics in the Helix. The only "disadvantage" is that you need to set this up for each of your presets. Now depending on how many you have/need for the band it may be cumbersome. I chose not to go this route.

    Theoretically you could but it is important for each guitarist to hear his own sound directly from the guitar and not through the mix. I alwys find it better to have my own monitor, It`s mine, I set the volume level I want etc.

    I kept my setup simple, I use the L2T just as my guitar monitor.
    My mic goes directly to the mixer and back to me via a stage monitor with all instruments on it.

    It does mean I have 2 monitors, but it is easier to find the problem if something is not working. I might try running the mic sound back to my L2T some time in the near future but for the moment I am happy the way it is.

    As I mentioned above, have a look at the L2T, it probably fits all your needs. :thumb:
     
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  3. Pop1655

    Pop1655 Premium Member

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    Based on my limited real knowledge, but lots of research, you sound like someone who would easily benefit from taking the step up to the LT2. You're being given good advice above

    also..just fyi:
     
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  4. CaptainT

    CaptainT Senior Member

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    Ah, great. Thx for the insight. This makes a lot of the stuff easier to understand:)

    Just took a look at the L2T, there is almost no difference in Price. Thanks for the tipp!:)
     
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  5. tzd

    tzd Senior Member

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    Once the band starts playing on stage, you will only be able to hear yourself clearly on the monitor when the speaker is directly pointed at you. Each guitarist will need to have his own monitor pointed at him.
     
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  6. CaptainT

    CaptainT Senior Member

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    So I talked about the Helix to my bandmates today and they were like "Wow, that´s cool" :)

    Two of my Bandmates intended to buy new amps, but we thought about some different solution now. We have only one vocalist, 2 guitars and bass.

    I am a gear nerd, but the others don´t care at all. They didn´t even know what amps they were using and if they were tube or solid state:)

    I now thought about programming presets for our cover band and run all instruments (without drums) through the Helix. Instead of amps we would buy a Band P.A. including some Monitors for them.

    I would control the Band over the Helix and programm all the paths for the band: 1 Mic Line for the vocals, 2 guitar lines and one bass line per preset. The others don´t care much about their sound, as Long as it is loud, so they are ok with me controlling and programming it. I love toying with this stuff, so I think this would be really cool:) Snpashots would do the trick for me soloing etc.

    Do you think this approach would work or is there a flaw in my thinking?

    The setup would be Vocals, guitar 1, guitar2, bass---->Helix--->P.A. Mixer---->Monitors for guitars and bass, FOH
    Drums would be the only one not controlled by the Helix.

    We thought about calling the band "the Lazy Ones" or something like that XD

    Just for info, the bassplayer plays a 30W solid state marshall Combo and the 2nd guitar plays a 20 year old Marshall solid state combo amp and they are happy soundwise, so I think putting them through the Helix would be an improvement, too.

    They might be able to use their clean amps as Monitors, too, as they don´t care a lot about soundquality?
     
  7. drew365

    drew365 Senior Member

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    You can only have one preset / snapshot active at one time. So segmenting the processing needs for vocals, guitar and bass, in one preset would be a challenge. I'm not saying you couldn't do it, but a definite challenge.
     
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  8. Pop1655

    Pop1655 Premium Member

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    IMG_4774.JPG

    I'd like to know the potential/limitations of this. Haven't played with it, just saw it.
     
  9. MusicLaw

    MusicLaw Senior Member

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    There's a lot that can be done with that Template Preset. As with all the Factory Helix Presets and Templates they serve are examples of how and what can be done, but often may not suit your specific needs.

    The Template you show, is a 4 Channel Stereo Mixer for two Guitars, a Mic, and an FX Return. Each has an FX Send at the start and end of Signal Path. Each has a Dynmaics Block, an EQ Block, a Two Gain Blocks. Each Guitar Signal Path has it's own Amp Block. The Mic Signal Path has the Mic PreAmp Block defined. The FX Return Signal Path has a Modulation Block Defined.

    The Parameters of each Block (including the Input Blocks and Output Blocks, at the start and end of the each Signal Path) will distinctly affect the way each Block behaves and contributes to the overall attributes of that Signal Path and how the signals are routed.
     
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  10. Donal

    Donal ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Premium Member

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    Technically it is probably doable but I would not use such a setup for a complet band. e.g. if someone needs a specific instrument louder you have to adjust a gain pedal you would have in the chain to give everyone different volume levels (as you only have 1 volume pedal). Although it may only take a few seconds if you know what to do and how to do it, you simply don`t have that time during a gig. If you are going to go to a mixer anyway, then let each musician go to it directly.
     
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  11. CaptainT

    CaptainT Senior Member

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    Ah ok, I see. So I can´t regulate the loudness of the instruments separately, but I rather have to add a virtual effect pedal to change it, right?

    Hmm, gotta think about that:) Thx for the input
     
  12. tzd

    tzd Senior Member

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    The Helix might suffice as a mixer if you are doing a 1-man or 2-man show, but with a full band you are probably better off with an independent mixer.

    As mentioned above, you might have volume level issues that will be difficult to balance through the interface.

    Also adding Bass into the same mix could drown things out. Bass usually works well through its own amp at the back of the stage regardless of what everyone else is running (it's so easy to be a bass player!).

    Also you might become severely limited in processing power.
     
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  13. Pop1655

    Pop1655 Premium Member

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    I agree with Donal.
    You can use separate gain blocks and control volume. I think it could be done, but you'd probably need to be the Macgyver type.

    I want to figure it out for one electric, one acoustic and one mic, but in a small informal setting. I think passed that could be pushing it.
     
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  14. MusicLaw

    MusicLaw Senior Member

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    When Paths 1 and 2 are used you're accessing the full power of both of Helix's DSPs. One each is dedicated to Paths 1A/1B and 2A/2B.

    A separate mixer nearly always provides greater dexterity and may be more suitable for individual instrument/track level control changes. Nonetheless, the Helix does allow for very pecise individual adjustments of any of the Blocks in each Signal Path individually. Plus, if you know you're going to have simultaneously engaged parameter changes or gain riding adjustments, these can be done with multi assignements to the footswitches, the Expression Pedal Controller, up to two additional external Expression pedal controllers, via Snapshots, and via MIDI control with the Helix. So there's an awful lot of potential to be applied if the need or desire arises.

    Also, Helix Signal Path Output Blocks support redirecting how each of the Signal Paths are routed. So, signals could go to different Main Monitor Out, XLR or 1/4", as well as to FX Sends, if desired. These in turn could be used for feed the signals to different monitors, IEMs, Amps, Powered Cabs, or Active Monitors, 2CM, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
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  15. MusicLaw

    MusicLaw Senior Member

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    Very easy to do! And, Helix would not be breaking a sweat. ;)
     
  16. drew365

    drew365 Senior Member

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    This is funny. Pop's post jogged my brain and made me realize I have a similar need coming up. A friend and I have been asked to do two songs at a large party being held in a restaurant. We'll have two acoustic/electric guitars and one vocal mic, that needs to be amplified. I was planning on buying stuff that I might never use again. I should figure out how to do this with my Helix and DXR12.
     
  17. Pop1655

    Pop1655 Premium Member

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    05B
    It's in there!
     
  18. drew365

    drew365 Senior Member

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    It looks like it. But I think I want some IR's for the acoustic guitars. I haven't tried it yet.
     
  19. CaptainT

    CaptainT Senior Member

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    Thank you, this was very helpful!

    So there is still a chance for our "Lazy DNA" band project :)

    I'll be working on this stuff a little more in theory. I am going to get the Helix in December, so there is still time to figure everything out:)
     
  20. CaptainT

    CaptainT Senior Member

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    I got a follow up question to your excellent description of how the Helix works.

    If I put two instruments into the Helix, let´s say guitar (guitar in) and bass (AUX in- how many instruments is the maximum?, I couldn´t find that info yet) and don´t mix them internally, but run the signals parallel to two different Outputs of the Helix. Will I then be able to go to a separate mixer from there? If yes, this would solve the Problem of changing the instruments´ loudness independently. As I want to use this with a Line6 Stagesource in the future, I would be using the L6 and the XLR Output, both going to a L2T cab.

    The vocals could go to the L2T directly if I understand that correctly. I´d need to test if the Helix would be able to handle the additional vocals (as it has effects etc.) as this might eat addidtional CPU power.

    The Helix is such a cool thing, I can´t stop thinking about it. It´s just annoying that I have to wait another 5 months till I can get one (Gonna be my 40th birthday present XD )

    Cheers guys, you were all very helpful!!!

    Edit: I am just reading the Manual, which says I can use Aux, Variax and guitar in. So if I had a variax I would be able to run one more Instrument?

    Edit 2: Reading the manual is really helpful XD
    Considering what I just read, a good solution for our band would be:


    Guitar 1+2 parallel into the Helix--> out to the Stagesource L2T via 2 different Outputs.

    Vocals --> Helix---> Stagesource

    Bass--> Bassamp with D.I. Out (we just found out he has one:) )--> Stagesource

    Our bassplayer never changes his sound, so this would be enough I think
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017

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