Heavily armed terrorists seize refuge

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by murmel, Jan 3, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. KSG_Standard

    KSG_Standard Senior Member

    Messages:
    25,537
    Likes Received:
    27,861
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Well, I haven't managed to work up any outrage...I just thought the use of the term was misplaced. The Oregon occupiers...or seditionists if you prefer, seem to be the antithesis of fascists...no? If your enemy is fascism, then these lunatic ranchers...or anarchists...would be on your side.:thumb:
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Shelbyblues

    Shelbyblues Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,304
    Likes Received:
    8,758
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  3. HenryHill

    HenryHill Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,243
    Likes Received:
    40,381
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    Cliven Bundy has sent a certified letter to the Harney County Sheriff, Oregon Governor and the US Pres saying his is in charge of the 4 still occupying the fed compound in Burns, Oregon, and lists demands.

    I tried to find a sizable image to post, but they seem to only be small pics from app articles at this point, so I have posted the Leader's Blog site which includes the letter.

    I found it on CNN with my phone, but Google does not show any other images bigger than about 400 x 300.

    He says that he hasn't spoke to his son Ammon, but that the son's request they give up must have been made under duress of Federal Custody, so he is claiming leadership, from the warmth of his home, for the continued event.

    Guessing Bags Of Dicks are inbound to the Bundy Ranch.

    [​IMG]

    Bundy Ranch
     
    3 people like this.
  4. KSG_Standard

    KSG_Standard Senior Member

    Messages:
    25,537
    Likes Received:
    27,861
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  5. 2manyGuitars

    2manyGuitars Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    8,156
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    "We the People of Harney County"?

    How does he figure that? Did he move, buy property?
     
    6 people like this.
  6. Shelbyblues

    Shelbyblues Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,304
    Likes Received:
    8,758
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Likewise here.

    While I agree about to much bureaucratic overreach, I think I will remain neutral on this situation. :)
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. 2manyGuitars

    2manyGuitars Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    8,156
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    I also love "We the People of the Citizens of the United States" and the fact he misspells the name of the refuge.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww[/ame]
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. cmh6122

    cmh6122 Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,235
    Likes Received:
    31,243
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    The minds of the the Self-Absorbed, Self-Appointed do not recognize any limits to their authority.
     
    6 people like this.
  9. jeff_farkas

    jeff_farkas Senior Member

    Messages:
    32,350
    Likes Received:
    20,449
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    ..
     
  10. Shelbyblues

    Shelbyblues Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,304
    Likes Received:
    8,758
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    That also sounds like some public servants..... :laugh2:
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. Sin Nombre

    Sin Nombre Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,223
    Likes Received:
    29,068
    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Sounds like he's channeling Sarah.
     
    2 people like this.
  12. KSG_Standard

    KSG_Standard Senior Member

    Messages:
    25,537
    Likes Received:
    27,861
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    One in particular came to mind for me.:applause::applause:
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. HenryHill

    HenryHill Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,243
    Likes Received:
    40,381
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    I love he lives in Bunkerville. :laugh2:
     
    2 people like this.
  14. 2manyGuitars

    2manyGuitars Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    8,156
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    While we're all expressing our love for things...

    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. Mindfrigg

    Mindfrigg Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,306
    Likes Received:
    291,980
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    [​IMG]
     
    2 people like this.
  16. PeteK

    PeteK Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,797
    Likes Received:
    19,143
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Place a sheriff at the entrance...... for a time. :laugh2:
     
  17. Bobby Mahogany

    Bobby Mahogany Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,518
    Likes Received:
    21,440
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    This guy lives in "Bunkerville"?
    You can't make up stuff like that!

    I find it quite ironic that he uses USPS to send his letter...

    And this is priceless:
    "I swear or affirm that the above and foregoing representations are true and correct to the best of my information, knowledge, and belief"

    More like:
    "I swear or affirm that the above and foregoing representations are true and correct to the best of my delusion"
    :laugh2:
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Mindfrigg

    Mindfrigg Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,306
    Likes Received:
    291,980
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    [​IMG]
     
    4 people like this.
  19. Roberteaux

    Roberteaux Alien Hominid V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    24,268
    Likes Received:
    118,098
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    I would say that the group is not "fascist", mainly because one has to actually be in control of a state in order to exhibit the full gamut of fascist tendencies... and these guys are in control of nothing. The only thing they actually seem to run is their mouths.

    But never mind all that crap. It's hard to say what a group of insurrectionists might happen to represent, when they're at a nascent stage of development. One might get a good idea of what to expect from a group by the nature of its activities as it rises, but it's usually most useful to listen to the group and what they say so as to determine who, precisely, the group means to appeal to. After that, it's not so much what they say as what they do that identifies them to me.

    But in the meantime, many of their utterances are ideological in nature and of such a type as to seem mainly like abstractions or occlusions. And this is what any debate of semantics regarding fascism, sedition, anarchy, and so forth would probably turn into. It would devolve into a sort of grumbling of disputatious sophists, really-- or so Plato would have warned us. And because one side will refuse to accept the pejorative designations of another side-- and because both sides always insist on the use of pejorative designations-- such discussions never do seem to get past the business of whose use of terms is most apt and correct whereas the etymology, connotations, and so forth of each term happens to be.

    Rosseau told us: if we mean to discuss things, at least agree on a mutual definition for your terms or all that will happen is that you'll spend all your time refuting one another's words on the basis of definition, rather than getting to the actual heart of whatever matter is at hand.


    ***************​


    My take on the subject is sort of like this: I was not convinced that the occupation was necessary, even if it was ultimately just in its conception. I am not blindly following the government here, and instead have grave concerns over several of the directions the government has taken over the last couple of decades or more. It's not as if I am unaware of things that give any citizen just cause to wonder WTF. I am also aware that the Sagebrush War has been ongoing for at least a couple of decades, and expect that there might be some legitimate grievances that need to become a matter of greater public awareness, and probably reform.

    However, the behavior of the Bundy group and its affiliates has not seemed to be fully necessary to me. I also dislike the high handed nature of the demands that the group made, many of which would have actually caused a great deal of social instability were they acceded to. I do not feel that the United States needs to be plunged into greater turmoil even if all of the grievances I'm aware of are actually valid, and would prefer a more reasonable solution. I do not appreciate the strident terminology of the group, which seeks mainly to invalidate governmental suzerainty altogether, though they never do provide any sort of completely viable or valid alternative.

    Every group I've seen-- and that includes some of the overworld groups, such as the Constitutional Sheriffs-- has always featured something in common with everybody else: they mean to become more powerful in the temporal sense.

    I also don't tend to see any sort of leader in Cliven Bundy-- and let's face it: he's basically the person who feels he is calling all shots here, even countermanding his son's request to the last four occupiers, asking them to leave. Cliven wants to stay relevant, yo... and I don't trust him any more than I'd trust the government. In fact, I trust him less. To me he's mainly just some wealthy cattleman who bandies concepts around in a way that doesn't quite fully convince me that he is to be taken on his word alone.

    I do not feel particularly compelled to follow such a man-- especially when behind his constitutional musings lies the fact that he'd make more money if the government would buzz off and stop bugging him. I do not say he's totally without sincerity, but even lunatics are sincere while giving voice and action to their delusions. Since I don't know much about the guy other than the public face he's been creating for himself, I'm not going to flock to him just because he thinks he sounds good. To me, he usually sounds incomplete and piecemeal, nothing so cogent about him at all-- not even his great and righteous anger.

    The inflammatory nature of most of his utterances to not generally strike me as being the thoughts of a truly benign individual. He appears to be taking advantage of a lot of factors, but the raw intelligence of those who might be his followers does not seem to be among those factors. It seems rather to be the other way around. Screw him, he's nobody to me.

    I have seen the repeated religious references issued by the group, and let's face it: I don't trust those who tend towards theocracy by any means. Most of our founding fathers and greatest statesmen didn't either-- and with very good reason: they remembered the destruction of the Thirty Years War.

    This is the reason our government was designed to be secular from the ground up. With (and even within) a theocracy, nothing ever settles-- there will be no peace. They all confuse hegemony with divine justice, invalidate and censure those who are not in lockstep with their beliefs, and because they can't prove the first word of their thesis they always resort to the idea that to question them at all is heresy. So screw them, too. :thumb:

    I would not wish to be a part of the pack of rogues I found among the group that arrived to perform the original occupation. We had petty criminals among them, obvious poseurs, known bigots, a murderer, and a generalized pack of hotheads beyond that. I found very little of what they said to be so cogent as hackneyed. I've been listening to guys of the same type for decades already, and have noticed enormous gaps in their conceptions. Like all ideologues, they never do give much thought to any considerations other than their own. And for being such absolutists, they generally earn my ultimate distrust every time.

    I disliked the idea of being called to arms by any of these people. I am not certain that their interpretation of the Constitution is entirely valid or even workable, and yes, I'm aware of the extralegal and non-representative nature of the BLM, the IRS, and various other bureaucracies that can actually create codes by a process that is, when viewed in Constitutional terms, actually invalid.

    So yeah: I get it. I also get a lot of other things, too.


    ***************​


    But so far, all these guys have done is to irritate me by being so willing to foment a violent ideology that would have me bearing arms were it to spread.

    It was wondered who we should fear most: fascists, or whatever. My attitude is that those whom I fear most are extremists of any type-- period. And I don't care what they say, I watch what they do. I don't sit around arguing whether somebody is a "freedom fighter" or any of that glorious crap. I just watch what they do, because that is what they're really all about.


    ***************​


    I disliked their extortionate tendency to threaten others, even though their threats are a joke to me for their inability to prosecute. I deplore the cowardice they exhibited as they selected victims to intimidate.

    I also don't like extremists because they never do seem to be able to accept anything that isn't in total lockstep with their musings. You might be angry with the government, let's say, but if you're not angry enough, then the average extremist figures that you are the enemy, just as bad as the government. And if they're strong enough, they'll kill ya for it.

    The thoughts of such people are generally dominated by a type of inconsiderate absolutism that is typical of blockheads. And so I wouldn't trust the first one of these people. No matter what their screed is, they all seem to feel that the ends justify the means, and great injustices and much misery comes to pass as they prosecute whoever they figure they can take on and get away with it.

    They talked about setting up kangaroo courts to indict officials who disagreed with them and to then make arrests. They hounded citizens who were simply functionaries within a federal bureaucracy, and they made a lot of other loud noises that only a shakedown artist would utter in the first place. They issued haughty orders to the US federal courts to vacate a sentencing by a means that is entirely extralegal. I don't even agree with the charges the Hammond people faced to begin with, but there are other ways to do this than to invalidate every freakin' court decision in the country.

    They sound like thugs, not like enlightened citizens of any sort. They sound like morons.

    And I'll be damned: their desire is a citizen's uprising that would almost certainly lead to a great deal of bloodshed were it successful. They wanted their revolution to spread, and the fact that they are so willing to plunge the country into an armed uprising for the reasons they've so far mentioned wasn't especially to my liking. If I'm gonna kill or die shooting it out with the government, things need to be one hell of a lot worse than they are at this point in time. I can more easily imagine myself having to defend myself from them.

    Bah! As if the rest of our domestic issues weren't bad enough, these guys gotta try to spark off some kind of freakin' revolution?

    They should be more careful of what they wish for.

    --R
     
    6 people like this.
  20. ehb

    ehb Chief Discombobulator Premium Member

    Messages:
    20,657
    Likes Received:
    99,555
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013

    [​IMG]
     
    4 people like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page