Guitar Grounding Common Misconceptions?

Discussion in 'Tonefreaks' started by jonesy, Jul 23, 2010.

  1. mariosyjp

    mariosyjp Junior Member

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    thanks i'll try that and report back. i was about to remove the push pull and put in a regular but you give me some hope! it's weird shit though, either crazy noise or none....
    also after soldering on top of one volume pot it got a bit scratchy even though it's pretty sealed (gibson pot). would some contact cleaner do any good?
     
  2. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    I wire up the 21 Tone Jimmy Page rigs with 4 push pulls and they are quiet, it's not the push pull pots themselves...good grounding is very important.

    Also make sure when you put the pick-guard on that nothing is bent or touching a pot lug or hot wire, that can also create lot's of noise.

    You may have cooked that Gibson pot, you could try some contact cleaner but that may not help.
     
  3. mariosyjp

    mariosyjp Junior Member

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    lol! cooked!
    nah i fixed it with the cleaner. the funny thing is that when i took the pickguard to put it on the guitar the knob of that pot stayed on the desk!! the cleaner went down through the pg and in the knob and turned it to soup!

    the guitar didn't have a ground wire going from pot to pot only on one of the volumes there was a ground wire on the back. so i fixed that and also put a wire on the push pull and the noise is less than ever. thanks for the help!
    really weird that the stock wiring didn't have that huh? supposedly the back of the pg grounds everything but i don't think it does....

    ps: does magnets out of phase sounds the same as electric out of phase?
     
  4. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    Glad you got it all sorted out, good job. :thumb:


    ps: does magnets out of phase sounds the same as electric out of phase?

    Yes to my ears they sound exactly the same. YMMV
     
  5. mariosyjp

    mariosyjp Junior Member

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    my V wiring.jpg

    this is what i did! wired everything to the back of the pot closest to the output and then wired that to the output's ground.
    lots of loops huh? in effect much less noise if you ask me :slash:
     
  6. DorothyHick

    DorothyHick Junior Member

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    Great content for a newbie
     
  7. DorothyHick

    DorothyHick Junior Member

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    That is so true....
     
  8. Slashminator

    Slashminator Junior Member

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    Hey nice thread!
    I've heard that if your guitar makes a lot of noise, and you can stop the noise by putting a finger on some metal on the guitar, then you must put a copper wire to deflect the noise. Is that correct? and if yes, what can you do then?
     
  9. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    When you touch the guitar and the noise is less or stops it is because you are acting as a ground. There is a wire that connects tailpiece stud to the control cavity grounding your metal parts. If you touch bridge and guitar buzz's louder then you may have the hot and ground backwards on your output jack.

    Good soldering and proper grounding must be done first to eliminate any extra noise. Some people like to shield their cavities with the paint or copper foil. I am really not a fan of that and have not needed to do that in my own guitars to make them quiet. A lot of times a buzz or a humm will be cause by a cold solder joint.

    If you like to play high gain or have a lot of lights and other outside sources around you that are causing noise then copper shielding may help. YMMV
     
  10. gwiz590

    gwiz590 Member

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    I have a question about rewiring a LP Traditional. Mine has the long pot shafts and the center junction in it. I want to install a prewired harness that has the bumblebee caps and the top grounded harness like the first picture in the second post of this forum. Can anyone help me with this wiring? My guitar is wired exactly like the last picture in the second post. I am planning on removing the red and white wires from the volume pots that connect to the center junction and simply reattaching them to the new pots. Same with the braided pickup wire. My questions then are:
    1. Do I need to ground the braided pickup wire to the pots since the new harness is wired with the copper wire?
    2. Do I still attach the stiff wire coming from the cavity?

    Thanks a bunch for any help.
     
  11. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    If you build a new harness with long shaft pots you would run a solid ground wire to the back of the pots. Then you can re-vamp your existing grounds to the jack and tail piece studs. If you use a switch with the vintage braided wire the grounding is taking care of by the outer lead.

    Here is a pic of one of my Long shaft LP rigs using the 10% CTS500XL pots....

    [​IMG]

    From the switch you will have a hot lead that goes to the center lug of each volume pot. The hot + pu leads solder to the outside lug on each volume pot, the neg. - pu lead solders (grounds) to the back of the volume pot..

    You will also have a ground wire from the switch frame that grounds to the back of the pots. And you will have a hot wire form the switch that goes to the output jack.

    The solid ground wire from inside the cavity would ground to the back of the neck volume pot.



    Here is a 50's style wiring diagram that shows the braided wire on the toggle switch runs. The outside braided shield is ground and the inner lead is hot. The output jack is grounded via the braided lead, and you can see the ground wire that connects to the tail piece studs.



    [​IMG]
     
  12. gwiz590

    gwiz590 Member

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    Wow thank you. I have a few 500k pots I have been wanting to replace the 300 volume pots in my Traditional for a while now. I think I'm going to try and rewire the whole thing to that spec. Do you recommend that I get the switch with the braided wire as opposed to keeping what is in there with the center junction? Thanks again!
     
  13. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    No problem your welcome. You can use your old switch with the pvc coated wiring and everything should work fine. The Switchcraft switch with the vintage braided wire is what I send out with my all my 50's style rigs, but I use pvc coated 22 awg on the switch leads of the Jimmy Page and MSP rigs. They both work well, no real tonal difference YMMV. ;)
     
  14. gwiz590

    gwiz590 Member

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    Great thanks again! I think i'm going to try it with the old switch first and see how it works. $$ is tight as always lol. So only one more question. Do I still reattach the ground wire coming from the cavity to where it was or does the schematic remove the need for that ground?
     
  15. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    I would Solder that ground wire from inside the cavity to the back of the nearest pot which is probably the neck volume. They are all grounded by that solid wire anyways.
     
  16. gwiz590

    gwiz590 Member

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    Great! Thanks again and wish me luck. Probably going to wire it all up tomorrow!
     
  17. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    Take your time, double check all your connections and make sure that your solder joints are tight (no bad grounds) and you should be good to go ;)
     
  18. MrRhoads

    MrRhoads Senior Member

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    I live in Sweden and i have a feeling that in Sweden the landlord would be legaly responsible to make sure such things are ok or fix them.
    I've got a feeling that your landlord should be responsible to fix things like that to, it's worth to check it up :thumb:
     
  19. pmarasha454

    pmarasha454 Junior Member

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    Read this thread and thought id throw some comments out.

    ground loops are really only problem in circuits with gain. loop problems come from the tiny differences in wire resistance between connection points in a circuit. the gain of the circuit will multiply tiny millivolt differences to more noticable amplitudes.

    I hear "earth ground" thrown around in relation to a guitar. to more easily understand the complex wiring I think you need to get away from thinking "ground" as guitar is AC signal and no single wire is really "ground".

    I also see all the wiring diagrams are physical layout oriented. Better understanding would be gained by looking at the circuits in a ladder diagram format. basically take a piece of paper draw two parallel lines call one positive rail and one ground rail if you wish or just A and B then insert all the components between them connecting all the common points to A or B and the component connections to each other. What you will realize then is all common points on A or B rails are unaffected a "C" or "Z" or any other physical wiring layout and theoretically all points are at identical voltage potential. also then you can see that the best thing you can do is have thick solid connections for these common points as a way of avoiding even the tiniest "loop" problems. (splitting hairs). Google ladder diagram to get an idea.

    finally the $1M question ...electricity travels from negative to positive. the first pages of this thread are basic battery and single wire diagrams with arrows pointing direction. All you have to understand is that a battery PROVIDES the electron flow so to see direction you must look INSIDE it. So on that diagram draw an arrow INSIDE the battery pointing NEG to POS. And on the WIRE you can draw arrows in same direction and clearly see RELATIVE flow is from POS to NEG battery terminals. This is the common misunderstanding most people have that electricity flows POS to NEG which it does not.
     
  20. Ejfalla

    Ejfalla Junior Member

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    Hi
    Please anybody have some correct grounding diagram for Les Paul Guitar?
    I need to rewire my guitar, now have noise when I plug to ampli and the noise stop when I touch metal part of my guitar :shock: !!
    Thans for yoru help
     

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