Gibson Loses $8 Million Counterfeiting Claim Case in the USA

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by Kemper59, Sep 30, 2017.

  1. Malikon

    Malikon Skreeeeee-ONK! V.I.P. Member

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    This is not a Gibson Forum, it's a Les Paul forum. There's quite a few companies making "Les Pauls/Single Cut" guitars.
     
  2. Bill Hicklin

    Bill Hicklin Senior Member

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    Since when has Gibson been "innovative?" Not since the Norlin era, except for the Fireturd X disaster. They just keep churning out 57 variations on the same half-dozen 50+ year old designs.
     
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  3. TheX

    TheX Voice of Reason

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    I have fallen in love with a lot of the 2018 Gibson guitars, because they look like Gibson guitars. The V, The SG, the Explorer, all look like they used to, and like they should. I still won't buy them new.
     
  4. paruwi

    paruwi Kraut-Rocker Super Mod Premium Member

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    Henry sure had been 'innovative' for years....

    he brought a lot of 'innovative' stuff nobody had asked for
     
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  5. OldBenKenobi

    OldBenKenobi Senior Member

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    That was such a bummer. I was saving my pennies to put together an SG kit and finally have my dream SG. Next thing I know, poof. Gone.
     
  6. skydog

    skydog Senior Member

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    :rolleyes:

    Because any time they didn't, forumites screamed for more reissues.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 6, 2017
  7. Bill Hicklin

    Bill Hicklin Senior Member

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    Now THERE is a wonderful example of a False Narrative- especially since, factually, it's unexceptionable, but given completely out of context it tells a different story than the true one.

    For 200 years, the United States was out of step with the rest of the world's copyright laws, especially after the rest of the world joined the Berne Copyright Convention in 1886. This meant, among other things, that US authors had a devil of a time protecting their copyrights overseas, and vice-versa. Under the original 1790 Act, only US citizens' works were eligible for copyright, and foreign books could be freely pirated, and even after it was amended a full century later, in 1891, protection was only extended to authors from certain select nations, and only if a US edition was printed in the United States- otherwise pirate away, me hearties.

    While US law was premised on a term of years beginning with publication date - in the 1909-1977 law, copyright was for was 28 years renewable for a second term - in the Berne Convention countries copyright was premised on the life of the author plus 50 years (extended by the EU to 70 years in 1993). The logic was fairly simple: an author should be able to leave something for his children. Then however there was the problem of "works for hire," where the author is simply an employee. Since obviously his lifetime doesn't apply, and businesses have no "lifetime," then the term for such works was fixed at 75 years from publication (a rough equivalent to the average life + 50 term).

    It took the US a while to get on board with the rest of the world (we've been "getting on board" the metric system since 1972). Adapting our copyright regime to the wholly different Berne system required a stepped approach. This began with the Copyright Act of 1976 (effective 1978), where for the first time ever, US copyright law extended to unpublished works, and works published without jumping through hoops of red tape (both of significance for musicians*). And above all it adopted the Berne standard of life + 50 for all future works, and 75 years for works for hire b(pre-existing copyrights were given an extension term of 47 years, for a total term of 75).

    In 1988 the US formally ratified the Berne Convention, since our copyright laws were now compatible, and US authors and songwriters for the first time enjoyed automatic copyright protection around the world.

    In 1993, as mentioned above, the EU extended the terms for its member nations to life + 70 and 95, in recognition of greatly extended life expectancies. All the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 did in that regard was to adopt EU standards.** But somehow it has been labeled the Walt Disney Act by the usual Korporashunz Suck people who pass around the term provision - completely out of context of course - as "evidence" of malignity. And they have largely succeeded, because propaganda works.

    ---------
    *Prior to 1976, a song had to be published as sheet music or there was no copyright protection for it in any form other than the original recording. Published, with copyright notice, and a copy filed with the government, and three copies deposited in the LIbrary of Congress. Miss a step- no protection.

    **This Act was far more significant in for the first time taking on the issues of copyright in the computer age, something '76 didn't even consider.
     
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  8. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Senior Member

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    They ain't Les Pauls they're tribute guitars. ( A Rose by any other name ) And there is a chance I'm mistaken but I figure the name Les Paul, as attributed to a guitar IS a Registered Trade Mark and or protected under law.
    Here in Montreal our NHL team , the Montreal Canadiens, are also know as the "Habs".
    The major newspaper in Montreal began running a forum, like this one, called " Habs Inside Out ". The teams legal told them they could not use that name ( Habs ). The paper had to change the Forums name.
    I guess you guys had not been contacted by Gibson in a similar way ?
    BP
     
  9. Ph03n1x

    Ph03n1x Senior Member

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    Same here. The weird thing is that they were not very transparent about this fact on their website. I email them several times and never got a response. Ended up being the final nail in the coffin for me. Rock and Roll Relics is using their kits so it seems like they no longer care about individual orders.
     
  10. 21stcsm

    21stcsm Senior Member

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    Can you cite the case they 'won'?

    Like the exact case cite?

    I have heard of them WINNING a case against Heritage

    In the 80's, several manufacturers SETTLED by agreeing with Gibson to modify stuff at least for US export

    Those aren't WINS

    they were settled outside court thus no precedent set that binds others

    Great stuff except they haven't avoided letting a case go through in Japan

    They lost there decisively

    Yes, 'Les Paul' the NAME is legally protected

    And yes, the tributes / replicas etc cannot be marketed , let alone labeled as a "Les Paul" but for PRACTICAL purposes *we* refer to them as Les Pauls

    You may have noticed that
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 6, 2017
  11. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

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    I scoured through google images but couldnt find any photos. Could you lead me to one?
     
  12. rockstar232007

    rockstar232007 Senior Member

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    Though yo can't see the headstock, I believe this is one of the first few that he owned?:

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Malikon

    Malikon Skreeeeee-ONK! V.I.P. Member

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    You see that with Strats and Teles too. An 'official' Strat is made by Fender, but a Strat by anyone else still gets called a Strat.

    Some people get upset by that; some accept that's sort of just how it is.
     
  14. dspelman

    dspelman Senior Member

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    The DMC of 1998 extended copyright beyond the EU's standards at Disney's behest and thanks to large political donations from Disney. One of the arguments at the time was that the act would match EU standards, but the EU at the time was already reconsidering the extension as a problem. There's no "somehow" about it. I'm not trashing corporations here, but the upshot of the current law is that it produced some serious problems with respect to orphan works that will still require some amending legislation (and of course that's not the only issue). Note that authors and songwriters did not have copyright protection around the world as of 1988; in some countries copyright was mostly honored in the breach, especially those whose political situation really didn't allow copyright, period. Concessions at a high level were made in order to sign trade treaties, but the practice and enforcement of those laws is spotty and grudging.
     
  15. Donal

    Donal ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Premium Member

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    Well Gibson has tried to innovate a few times over the decades, Firebird X, mini e-tune, G-Force, Zero nut, etc. the problem is the WE don`t want innovation. WE want the 57 variations on the same half-dozen 50+ year old designs. So not sure it`s totally Gibson`s fault.
     
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  16. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

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    I don't want chambered body... I want lightweight mahogany
    I don't want robot tuners... I want original kluson aesthetics but self-lubricating, non-slip, and high ratio
    I don't want a hardy finish... I want non-plasticised nitro and reds that fade even quicker
     
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  17. Georgiatec

    Georgiatec Member

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    I own 6 Gibson Les Pauls, but only one SG, a "Vintage" copy. It plays better than any Gibson SG I've ever played, has a sublime neck, isn't neck heavy and cost me fifty quid. Add 498/490 pickups and CTS pots and some Gotoh tulip tuners and it now sounds as good as it plays...I defy anyone to play it blindfold and be able to pick it out of a few Gibsons.
     
  18. OldBenKenobi

    OldBenKenobi Senior Member

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    They were, which is why the "Other Les Pauls" board became the "Other Single Cuts" board.
     
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  19. paruwi

    paruwi Kraut-Rocker Super Mod Premium Member

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    :thumb:

    Their 'legal team' is watching this and other forums
     
  20. Malikon

    Malikon Skreeeeee-ONK! V.I.P. Member

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    probably jealous because the 'official' board sucked :laugh2:
     

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