Gibson Loses $8 Million Counterfeiting Claim Case in the USA

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by Kemper59, Sep 30, 2017.

  1. 59Bassman

    59Bassman Junior Member

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    In summer I bought a DC jr variant from China to use as a modding platform. It was listed as a JOVINS brand and showed no decals. However it was confiscated by UK Border Force and they approached the 'copyrights holder' who claimed in contravened copyright and so was destroyed. Do you think in light of this settlement I have a case for compensation?
     
  2. cybermgk

    cybermgk Singin' the body lectric Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    [sigh] Part of trademark and copyright law is that that owner must aggressively protect their copyrights or they lose them. It isn't meant as a profit by ....... They have to or they lose them. They didn't early, which is why the only copyrights they have successfully won on and seem to still be recognized as owning by the courts regularly is the headstock shape and on the LP, the exact shape of the horn.
     
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  3. Lefty Adams

    Lefty Adams Senior Member

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    i really don't know how a company the size of JHS can ever be a threat towards Gibson quite honestly. They should spend their time going after all the chibsons imo ..
     
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  4. NickInTheStates

    NickInTheStates Junior Member

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    Great thread! The key note here is that they have to cease selling the designs that they were producing when Gibson brought he lawsuit. They since adjusted all of their designs to be unique enough to sell here.

    I do love the differing takes each side had.... Gibson touting that this basically strengthens their claim across all their protected shapes and JHS basically saying we settled things and now can go on with business. Spin control!
     
  5. tokairic

    tokairic Member

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    I am not impressed by Gibson 'for the price'. Quality needs to go up or price needs to come down on Gibson guitars. The main reason that some of the copyists are taking the guitar market is that the better makers are equalling or exceeding Gibson quality for a fraction of the price. Mainly down to Asian and Chinese labour rates.
    I would hate to see Gibson go - but I think they are fighting a losing battle.
     
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  6. skydog

    skydog Senior Member

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    What is the living arrangement for a typical Asian country worker building Chibsons? Would Americans be willing to live like that in order for their company to remain competitive? Not even considering the environmental fees associated with operating in America, I don't see how Gibson will survive without brand protection. The trouble with that being companies such as Gibson attempt (not always successfully) to be innovative, while the copycats are just that. If the innovators disappear, then what?
     
  7. garybaldy

    garybaldy Senior Member

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    Here's one of my 'Vintage' guitars. It does remind me of something else ;) DSCF1894.JPG
     
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  8. SoK66

    SoK66 Junior Member

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    Gib-O wouldn't spend so much on attorneys and court costs if its products weren't so ridiculously over-priced. Henry has an Ivy League MBA. In the process of getting that sheepskin I'd think he'd have learned a bit more about how businesses operate.
     
  9. Pappy58

    Pappy58 Senior Member

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    I have Gibsons back on this one! Why can't these other guitar makers design their own models? Rather they always copy iconic models because they have no original idea's themselves! They have been diluting and confusing the market for decades, beginning with the Japanese copy flood of 70's. :wtf: If you do not feverishly defend your copyrights and patents in todays America, .gov turns a blind eye! And the judge in the original case was way off the mark in his ruling, Imo!
     
  10. pinkjimiphoton

    pinkjimiphoton Silver Supporter

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    they totally screwed my friend shengze from (formerly) badcat guitars.
    only because they had money. they forced him to be shut down by ebay and paypal a couple times, for selling a LP variant with a 25" scale. i own two. they are superior to any gibson lp i've seen since probably 74 or so. the norlin period was bad to most peeps (i loved that period's necks) but they went downhill from there. their customer support is abysmal, and their warranty service is a joke.

    in the end, the only thing they could use against shengze was the headstock shape. he agreed to stop using it, and they left him alone. until they decided to sue over the single cut.

    they lost that cuz there have been guitars with single cutaways since the day of the lute.

    if i go to GC and look at gibsons, i see bullshit hanging on the wall with crappy finish work thats actually rippled and dimpled from not taking the time to do shit right.
    the stuff gibson puts out would never even make it off my damn bench. its a joke.

    i find this whole lawsuit thing kinda amusing, having been stuck in the middle of it temporarily when i was trying to help shengze establish his new business.
    in the end, it was bad cat amps that brought him down, not gibson.

    bad cat amps got pissy cuz shengze's stuff had surpassed his with the search engines.
    we built a lot of hype up quickly, but then the guy from badcat amps started suing him, threatened me with lawsuits and shit even.
    turns out shengze owned he rights to the name bad cat guitars in europe, oz and africa... and john from badcat owned it in the usa only.

    as in most cases, the usa guy wins by default. his plan was to begin putting out badcat guitars... of course, we'd already built the business for him, so all he had to do was step in.

    i've yet to meet anyone who's ever played a badcat amp, but there's badcat guitars all over the place.

    it all comes down to greed and protecting your copyright i guess.

    rickenbacker is the only one that is not only aggressively protective of their intellectual propertie, but actually has real lawyers to go after folks. and they do.

    anyways.. thnks for the fascinating read.
     
  11. skydog

    skydog Senior Member

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    The last great year for Gibson was 2015.
     
  12. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Senior Member

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    Well I recvd my LPF Trending Threads this morning.
    I didn't know it was Crap All Over Gibson Day.!
    Seriously... The Walmart Sell Gibsons innuendo / 8 Million Dollar loss ( which title is misleading..they didn't lose 8 Million $ they just lost the first round of a law suit ) / Gibson Rosewood disaster ( seriously dude.! Over dramatize much ? You didn't buy it did you?)
    Just saying if you don't like the Gibson in your hand then don't buy the dam thing.
    By far the majority of Gibson Les Pauls are happier than shaite to own one and play one.
    I know I am and after all this forum is dedicated to the guitar.
    I guess I'm just getting a little fed up with all heaping of shaite on Gibson. Just don't buy the dam thing and go get your self a Fender or a PRS or a Suhr or whatever. And go to another forum will ya please?
    Ya wanna see a guitar which Gibson is gonna sell a million of 'em? Take a look at the guitar and the price.!
    That's my rant for the day lol.
    BP
    http://www.zzounds.com/item--GIBLPTR9017?siid=196832
     
  13. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Senior Member

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    No. But you've got to try.
    BP
     
  14. Detroit Blues

    Detroit Blues Junior Member

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    Gibson won against Heritage guitars in the 80's because Heritage used old left over Gibson bodies....
     
  15. rockstar232007

    rockstar232007 Senior Member

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    Not only that, but for the first couple of years, they also used the Gibson headstock shape, and just replaced "Gibson" with "The Heritage".
     
  16. jds4

    jds4 Junior Member

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    I have to wonder how other members would feel if any one of us had invented the LP, or the SG, or the Strat. Would we feel "honored" to have numerous competitors all profiting from our work, or would we be trying to defend our intellectual property? When I say competitor in this case I don't mean small hand building luthiers making a handful of nice versions of legendary guitars, I mean large mass producers with marketing budgets just like a Gibson or a Fender. I bet some of us are pretty passionate about cars too. Would we be ok with a major offshore car company building Mustangs, Camaros, or Challengers practically indistinguishable from the originals and selling them here? Again, not dragging small customizers and custom builders into this question, but would we expect Ford, Chevy or Dodge to accept that situation? Just a couple questions that came to mind while reading this discussion.
     
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  17. Diamond Dave

    Diamond Dave Junior Member

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    This reminds me of when Harley Davidson tried to sue Japanese motorcycle manufacturers for the trademark infringement to the "potato-potato-potato" sound of their V-twin motors. Ridiculous.
     
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  18. paruwi

    paruwi Kraut-Rocker Super Mod Premium Member

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    vEYND9W.gif
    That's not YOUR job .....
     
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  19. jds4

    jds4 Junior Member

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    I recall that event. They sued for copyright infringement re exhaust note as you point out. They didn't like the metric makers using the single pin crank. HD is a company legendarily overzealous for protecting its trademarks and IP, and ridiculous lengths are just short putts for their legal team.
     
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  20. dspelman

    dspelman Senior Member

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    1. You're pretty much unaware of living conditions in China, particularly in the industrialized areas. We have Americans who've been in the coal industry all their lives who have black lung now, who can't drink the water anywhere near where the mines were and who live under the threat of coal sludge lakes breaking through earthenwork dams and taking out whole towns and causing widespread death and injury. Those coal sludge lakes would effectively make any property over which that water flowed forever uninhabitable. Those are "better" living conditions?

    2. Intellectual property rights weren't even a thing until the Industrial Revolution came along. They provide a *temporary* monopoly to allow inventors to profit from their products. That monopoly was designed to be limited in time and scope (the Floyd Rose patent, for example, has long since run out and licenses are no longer required to duplicate it). Trademarks (what Gibson is dealing with) don't have a time limit but Gibson argues that there would be "confusion" in the market place if others used the same headstock shape. They've avoided allowing these cases to continue through to a court judgement because they'd likely lose. A settlement, even after a court trial has begun, gets them out of that just in time.

    Gibson "innovated" years ago and shouldn't be protected any longer under any Intellectual Property law regarding body or headstock shapes. Those should long ago have passed into the public domain (and have, effectively) under law. They've managed to bully settlements only because intellectual property law (in particular) is SO expensive to litigate through to a judgment that it's effectively broken IP altogether. That, and deep pockets will also buy legislation favorable to the rich. Disney, for example, was destined to lose Mickey Mouse to the public domain (and should have) via then-current copyright law. They paid legislators to pass an amendment that would extend the copyright period. Originally, copyright was to extend for 28 years from publication. Various extensions were added over the years, but the big one was the most recent, in 1998. In 1998, the Copyright Term Extension Act (colloquially referred to as the "Mickey Mouse Act") again extended the term of existing copyrights to the life of the author plus 70 years. Additionally, the term for copyrighted works of corporate ownership was increased to 120 years. This effectively broke copyright, and broke access to works that by now should be in the public domain, making it near impossible for historians and other legitimate users of old and orphaned works to offer legitimate content.
     
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