Gibson from the point of view of MIJ fans

Discussion in 'Other Single-Cuts' started by Andy California, Jan 1, 2018.

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  1. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Senior Member

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    I think a lot of people don't consider the fact that the 30 year old Tokai they bought has been set up countless times in its life to the point where it is the best it can possibly be, while the Gibson they played at Guitar Center was never properly set up at all and had been abused by kids, sitting on the floor.

    I set up my friend's Ibanez cheapo student model for him and he was blown away at the potential he never knew it had. Barring truly shoddy fretwork, most guitars can be made to play comfortably. And whoever said that the Gibson he played sounded dull, again I would say that has more to do with grabbing an amp that has not been dialed in for the guitar (which has also not been dialed in) than anything. I have rarely heard anything bad about their pickups.

    I will say that the Japanese, in my experience, have better QC. I was blown away to find the Chinese Ibanez Artist my father bought was nearly perfectly set up from the factory.
     
  2. Inside Guy

    Inside Guy I am no longer @ Gibson V.I.P. Member

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    OK, this would be misleading to the buyer to be honest. So, let me ask you this...What year does "old growth" stop and what year does "new growth" begin?
     
  3. Mosster47

    Mosster47 Senior Member

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    You're never going to get a lot of objective views on this because most people at their core aren't objective. Just a quick glance into politics you will find that any idea one side has the other side thinks it sucks by no more reason than it came from the other side.

    There is the blind pride that comes with price as well. If you spent $5k on a guitar it has to be better than an $1,800 guitar. If it's not you basically wasted a tropical vacation on nothing. How many people do you think would admit that? That's another reason they wouldn't give a lesser priced guitar a chance. Another example is the owner of a BMW 7 Series will tell you their car is way better than a Hyundai Genesis. If you've spent quite a bit of time in both you know the differences are almost zero, but holy shit does one cost way more than the other.

    I'll leave this with Historics; no one gives a rat's ass how they play or sound. Go buy two R9's, one with a monster top and one with a mild flame new. They will cost the same. Post them for sale a year later. In the monster top listing say nothing about it other than specs. In the mild top post how it's truly a great player, has amazing tone, amazing feel, is one of "good ones" people always talk about. The monster top sells for more 100% of the time. It's vanity and that's totally ok. I'd hit on the 5'7" 120lb blonde with fake cans and a learning disability over the frumpy English professor 100% of the time too.

    People are people. Do what makes you happy.
     
  4. brokentoeswalker

    brokentoeswalker Senior Member

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    I can say that I am a fan of the Japanese guitars I own. They've earned it though. I've owned some Gibson's and they weren't bad guitars, they just weren't worth keeping and easy to sell. I still have one Gibson i enjoy. I think that history and nationalism plays a part in this, amonst other things. Gibson invented the Les Paul so they are a storied manufacturer, also I'm betting most people from the U.S. believe that their product is naturally better than a similar product made elsewhere. I'm betting most Canadians would swear our maple syrup is better than anything Vermont could put out when they probably have either never tried it or could tell in a blind taste test. It took a long time for Japanese cars to be recognized as a quality product. Remember Pearl Harbour and WWII ?? There are a myriad of reasons people are inclined to lean one way or the other before they can even touch something, and preconceived notions will often taint any real life exposure anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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  5. scott 351 wins

    scott 351 wins Silver Supporter

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    I look at it like this; Harley vs. Honda. Lol
     
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  6. swampblues

    swampblues Senior Member

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    Wanna know which is the best Let someone cover the headstock on each one then take home the on that sounds and plays the best Problem solved
     
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  7. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Senior Member

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    Well now, I don't know about that. The big difference is that the Hyundai will be reliable!
     
  8. LTigh

    LTigh Member

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    I can tell this thread is going to be a dumpster fire fairly soon unless a mod gets involved.
     
  9. villager

    villager Senior Member

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    see below for the 30 yr air dried

    https://www.musicland.co.jp/shop/itemlist/campaign/1/0/5098/

    re the question above i don't really understand what you mean, I believe old growth wood the be from very old trees, which grew slowly (due to the lack of light restricted by the canopy) in a natural environment, ie a forest, and new growth to be from new trees grown specifically for harvesting ie a plantation, is that not the case?
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  10. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Senior Member

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    His point is that trees are always constantly growing until you cut them down. Therefore, the outer rings are newer than the center. Does that make the outer rings sonically inferior? If so, any guitar will be a mix of newer and older wood, so wouldn't that make the guitar inconsistent in tone across the length of the body and neck? Do you really believe that any of that has a real impact on tone or sustain, anyway?

    And a tree has to be pretty old in the first place to be big enough to make a Les Paul out of...
     
  11. villager

    villager Senior Member

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    yes i understand that, so lets say it takes 25 years to grow big enough for a LP body, is there then no distinction between this 25 year old tree which has been grown to be harvested, and one which is grown naturally and is 150+ years old? there is an argument that slow, natural growth produces denser "better" wood, that was my understanding of the terms... i personally dont know if there is a huge impact on tone or sustain, but others think there is. let me reiterate my original post, which was this..

    gibson standards are weight relieved and the wood is new and oven dried, custom shop stuff is far far better, but there are still qc issues with sharp fret ends etc etc .. vintage mij are all non weight relieved, and air dried wood, new high end mij ie same level as custom shop are all immaculately finished in my experience.. I have had 30-40 custom shop gibsons, and only 1 has been as good as my best MIJs, i have tried a few standards and really am bemused that people will pay that much for them.. but the name is everything for some people...

    its my opinion, based on my experience, and some basic facts. thats all.. take it as you wish..
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  12. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Senior Member

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    I had not heard this argument, but if you think that the denser the wood, the better, then shouldn't you just make it out of Maple? And from one tree to the next, there will always be variation in density even if the trees were grown identically and for the same number of years. Also, some people like a lighter guitar, some people like denser wood; that's pretty subjective.

    And as others have pointed out, all LP Stds are not weight relieved. The LP Traditional was solid wood from 2012-2015 and you can often find models for specific retailers without weight relief. Besides that, frankly, I find the obsession with weight relief silly.

    I have not felt sharp fret ends on a Gibson beyond the budget model Specials with unbound necks. Gibson uses fret edge binding on most of their guitars, how would they even manage to have rough ends? That would take some effort...

    Frankly, with that lack of grammar and punctuation, I have to suspect your superiority complex is a result of insecurity...
     
  13. villager

    villager Senior Member

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    I agree, its totally subjective, and i did not say that I think denser is better, i said some people believe that. I stand corrected re the gibson standards, i should have stated most are weight relieved, again does it make a big difference? no idea, just pointing it out. some interesting info here.

    http://www.gibsontraditional.com/body-construction/

    The sharp fret end comment was an example of the issues gibson have had with quality control, where the frets meet the fret binding there can be an edge, which can be sharp. Regarding my grammar and punctuation, I do my best, but thanks anyway for your kind psychoanalysis.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  14. paruwi

    paruwi Kraut-Rocker Super Mod Premium Member

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    and I can tell you - it's not your job :lol:
     
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  15. PierM

    PierM Certified Naysayer Premium Member

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    Has nothing to do with Quality Control. It's how nibs are done. Since you can't blend steel into ABS, of course you have an edge.

    I start thinking you have no clue what you are talking about man. :)
     
  16. paruwi

    paruwi Kraut-Rocker Super Mod Premium Member

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    :hmm:

    I had a (1000€) Midtown Custom with perfectly done nibs (without any sharp ends) - and I had lots of other sub 1500€ Gibsons in my hands where the fretends were worse than the 88€ Epi SG junior I've bought

    So they can do it right - they just don't do it on all guitars,
    and that is a 'Quality issue' in my eyes
     
  17. paruwi

    paruwi Kraut-Rocker Super Mod Premium Member

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    please keep this kind of comments out - Thanks
     
  18. PierM

    PierM Certified Naysayer Premium Member

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    LOL that Midtown.

    Well, at least you don't say you had 40 Custom Shop. :rofl:
     
  19. paruwi

    paruwi Kraut-Rocker Super Mod Premium Member

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    nearly all of my Epis had the 'Custom-Shop' sticker....:doh:

    :rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  20. PierM

    PierM Certified Naysayer Premium Member

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    If you are talking about nibs (for the USA line) being not constant, that ARE NOT fret ends, then it's a totally different story. Those are hand scraped one by one, so hate it or love it (and I'm not a fan of those), they can't be different than that.

    A fret end is where the wire ends, that in the case of a binding over fret, it's covered by the plastic.
     
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