Getting a CITES Certificate in the UK?

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by Andy California, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    How do I get a CITES certificate when buying a new Custom Shop Gibson from a shop in the UK? One shop said they'd get one for me, but a couple of others said they can't help me in this matter. So provided I buy the guitar from one of the shops that can' help me with CITES certificate, how do I actually get one so I have no problems in the future if I decide to ship it outside the EU?
     

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  2. mudface

    mudface Senior Member

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    I would check with the Customs Office in the UK they should have info on getting a certificate.
     
  3. ARandall

    ARandall Senior Member

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  4. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    I just wonder how does one prove that the guitar is made of this or that?
     
  5. ARandall

    ARandall Senior Member

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    Well, for most guitars that come from a manufacturer you can simply look up specs. If you rocked up with say a LP RI where the specs are obviously IRW, I can't see why a CITES certificate for that would be an issue - Unless you are of that rather odd minority who's world is one big conspiracy theory and you are assuming that customs is simply a front for the workers to confiscate nice things for their own use.
     
  6. rclausen

    rclausen Senior Member

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    I looked into getting a CITES cert and the process seems rather prohibitive...$100 fee, gargantuan form to fill out (with exact wood species required) and a 2-3 month wait to process the docs
     
  7. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    Do you have to prove that a given wood is used or do they just take your word for it?


    For some guitars, specs are either unavailable or not specific enough (for example, only state "Rosewood" for fingerboard). I wonder what's then.

    I know I should contact the Customs Office, but I have a feeling it won't be an easy conversation, so I'm putting it off... That is if they have a non-automated line at all, because I couldn't get through to a real person when I tried calling HMRC. But on the other hand, it's always a good idea to hear other's personal experience with this sort of legal stuff.
     
  8. rclausen

    rclausen Senior Member

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    I don't think so but I can't say for certain as I was totally put off by the process
     
  9. Sharky

    Sharky Senior Member

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    in Germany the enviromental authority would be responsible for it, in the US it's fish and wildlife, needs to be something similar in the UK. Not the customs who are only responsible to check the CITES documents on import/export
     
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  10. thinkgreen

    thinkgreen Senior Member

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    http://www.exotichardwoods.co.uk/Environment/index.asp
    Have a read it mite or mite not help with your question. As a buyer of a finished piece I don't think you have much to worry about. I have done ebony and rosewood I use in making bodies and I am supplied by a reputable company and they have never warned me of any legal obligation to have any certificate.
     
  11. mudface

    mudface Senior Member

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    But would they not have information on to obtain these documents?............ like a police officer doesn't issue drivers license but he would know where to get one.
     
  12. Sharky

    Sharky Senior Member

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    well, they better should

    yes, they might know where they are issued but why not contact the issuing administration themselves? Check if this might be of any help: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/cites-imports-and-exports#application-process
     
  13. mudface

    mudface Senior Member

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  14. ARandall

    ARandall Senior Member

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    If it says just rosewood, then the general rosewood CITES will cover it. Its only Braz that requires the more stringent documentation which is perpetual to that particular board. In which case the guitar will come with a certificate of its own covering the specific bit of wood.
    I've imported CITES BRW about 5 times to Aus, so have 5 little CITES booklets if I ever want to travel the world with my guitars.
     
  15. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

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    I really hope those Certificates did not come from a seller in Greece. If they did I'd NEVER use them or you'll be in for a major surprise & it won't be pretty. :)

    :cheers2:
     
  16. thinkgreen

    thinkgreen Senior Member

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  17. thinkgreen

    thinkgreen Senior Member

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    Why? Unless I'm exporting what I make to outside the eu I do not need to have a certificate for the wood I use. You read the link I the post? That is my supplier and that page is explaining our obligations.
     
  18. Sharky

    Sharky Senior Member

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    you need a certificate whenever you sell something containing protected species. Even if you use a guitar in the public, or simply display it. And I really don't know where the problem is with this.
     
  19. thinkgreen

    thinkgreen Senior Member

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    There is no problem. But it states clearly that in the UK unless you selling or buying outside of the uk or at moment the eu that there is no need for it. If there was then all the shops selling guitars with rosewood fret boards would be supplying said certificate within the uk/eu. And how many bespoke furniture companys send them out with their peices?
    Now if your traveling to a country outside the eu with you personal guitar and your worried get one. It would save time and hassle if stopped. But your saying every company in UK is breaking the law selling guitars without One!
     
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  20. Mr.Paul

    Mr.Paul Senior Member

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    Sorry guys, but there is some misleading information here.
    You do NOT need a Cites certificate for your guitar.
    Most commonly Gibson uses Indian Rosewood for the boards. This wood is now listed in Cites Appenix II.
    As long as you just keep the guitar and play it you won't need anything. You can even tour within the EU without any problems.
    Now if you want to sell the guitar or want to take it outside the EU it's different. You need just a proof that the wood used was legaly claimed. If your guitar is made before 2017 everything is fine. Just show some papers with the building date (you can get it also from Gibson). If you bought it before 2017 keep the invoice as a proof.
    Now if you buy this year the shop should provide you with that proof. All shops have papers when the guitar was built and delivered to them. All guitars you buy now still use wood from before 2017. So just make sure the shop provides you with that information.
    When the start using wood from 2017 the manufacturers must take care of the proof. This will still not be a Cites certificate because it is only Appendix II.
    Brazilian Rosewood is listed in Cites Appendix III, here you do need a Cites Certificate.
    Madagaskar Rosewood is listed in Cites Appendix II since 2013 and nobody asked before or cared about it.
    The market really overreacted since this year!
     
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