Frets on True Historics vs Originals

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by Andy California, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. mudface

    mudface Senior Member

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    Yes I am, I will admit that.:D
     
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  2. Andy California

    Andy California Member

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    What the f*ck man? Didn't I say enough times that I prefer to buy new guitars? And that I like the reality where I can walk into a Gibson dealership and pick a guitar out of ten? Come on, man.
     
  3. Andy California

    Andy California Member

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    I'll "like" both of your posts for honesty.
     
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  4. PierM

    PierM Premium Member

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    Where did I say you buy used? Are you a BOT?

    Man, really, I'm glad you bought a Guitar instead of a Gun LOL!
     
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  5. lpthomas

    lpthomas Member

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    These posts and pages should just go at the end of the "Henry possibly…" thread. Then we wouldn't need to make stuff up there.

    Andy, the feeling I get is that your point actually is much simpler than you make it look: Isn't it just that you fear that Gibson tomorrow or in the near future stops making Custom Shop guitars? I don't think it's necessary to make it much more complicated.
     
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  6. Andy California

    Andy California Member

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    You said "I believe his entire point is that he wants Gibson keeping injecting in the market more guitars than people can buy, so that the market collapse and then he can buy those guitars for cheap...."

    Wasn't that about me?
     
  7. Andy California

    Andy California Member

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    To be honest, guys, I tend to be misunderstood a lot. There's something about the way I express my thoughts. Too elaborate, too many convoluted explanations, I guess. Usually I'm the one who writes the lenghtiest post or whatever. And that's how it starts rolling...
    I kind of regret starting this argument. That's the thing about me: sometimes I cannot keep myself from expressing my dissatisfaction with a popular opinion (key being "popular" opinion - something that's shared among a group of people that I interact with or a society in general). Then feel bad for being a not nice person. Believe it or not, I kept myself from commenting on crotches thoughts about production quantities of Historics for several months. But once I just lost it. And then I lost it when he said it again in this thread. It feels pretty bad. I know, I deserve it for the *** way I express my thoughts. But what I'm trying to say is: I should have written a very short comment and not gotten into a lengthy argument. And I apologize for getting out of control.
     
  8. Crotch

    Crotch Members Only Premium Member

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    Edit : nevermind, not worth it. Don't want you to "lose it" any more. (think it's been lost)

    You win the internet today man. Move this to the back stage and call it a Friday. (elitist inside mlp joke)
     
  9. Andy California

    Andy California Member

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    Exactly. Plus, I'm just a plebian: I would never in my life be able to get a Custom shop make a custom order guitar for me even if I had the money (I'm not even fortunate enough to live in the USA, the only place). But the thing is, the reasion I think this isn't too selfish is because I'm sure there are other people in the world who are saving money to get a Historic and to whom paying Collector's Choice prices for a Historic would make it a huge deal breaker.

    I elaborated on this a bit, but then remembered the curse of elaboration and deleted it.
     
  10. mudface

    mudface Senior Member

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    :cheers: Cheers for your honesty, the fact remains that we're just talking about guitars, not world hunger,......Andy you need to just lighten up a bit:D
     
  11. Andy California

    Andy California Member

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    Thank you for your kindness, sir.
     
  12. PierM

    PierM Premium Member

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    Overflooding does impact the NEW market first, producing tonnes of NOS for years to come. You still can find 2014 reissues on old stocks.

    Sorry I have the feeling that we are overtalking now. All have been said already
     
  13. freebyrd 69

    freebyrd 69 Premium Member

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    At this point, a lot of us are having a laugh at your expense.
     
  14. freebyrd 69

    freebyrd 69 Premium Member

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    He's right about one thing.....you do kind of have a limited mental capacity!! Bahaha
     
  15. Andy California

    Andy California Member

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    Once again, I apologize for all this. I was frustrated that people couldn't see my point, or at least didn't acknowledge that. Sometimes I have a feeling that people don't care about looking at things from a different perspective and just stick to their opinions no matter what. I feel like people don't really read what I'm writing in general - it's very common for me to email someone several questions and get a response to just the first one, leaving me with a feeling that they just didn't bother reading the rest of my questions or forgot there was any more text after writing the answer to the first one... That's very frustrating to me. So I guess I developed this "reflex" of always assuming that people don't pay attention to what I write.
    Therefore, it's my inability to express ideas clearly and just-to-the-point is to blame for this, along with my messed-up personality. So I apologize for not stopping when it was appropriate to do so. I still believe certain people stuck to their opinions without being open to what I was saying and focused on certain unimportant things I said disregarding some of the better points I made, but I'll stop as these discussions/arguments are of no value.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  16. mudface

    mudface Senior Member

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    Andy, i understand your point quite well. Gibsons have never been cheap,...ever. If they overly produce something they will have to compensate to recover that lost. In order to do that they will produce less and charge more. Simply making more and charging less will not lower the overhead, it will make them bankrupt. There in business to make a profit, not to break even. So most of us understand this and we bitch about Gibsons marketing concepts because it makes fools out of us consumers, not that the product has any less quality or value. But if that quality or value drifts a bit, yeah.......we like like to poke some noses. :D

    Another thing you may not be aware of is the costs of running a ginormous industrial manufacturing complex here in the United States. Federal and state regulations and permitting costs. Not to mention the day to day maintenance of a large facility. Utility costs and insurance of just the buildings. All this before employee costs. All of this adds to the overhead. It takes a lot of guitars sold at very expensive prices just to break even. The company isn't owned by stockholders, so the costs has to be compensated and guess where the compensation comes from? Consumers.
    Oh.....and i should add borrowing money.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  17. jamman

    jamman Premium Member

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    + All of this from different posts in this thread ...

    I just don't think that the only way to enjoy a nice high quality legendary Les Paul guitar should be an item of luxury reserved just for the rich and totally unavailable to plebian simpletons like me who, despite their miserble lifes, have committed to save up and unload that kind of money to get one.
    It's enough that these guitars are ridiculously expensive, so I'm glad that people who are committed can actually buy one. I strongly believe that those looking for a feeling of exclusivity should really consider calling up the Gibson Custom Shop and ordering an actual custom guitar.

    Keep in mind that most of these Historics stay in the USA, so people in other parts of the world have much poorer access to these guitars anyway, combined with much higher price tags. If Gibson made them in considerably lower quantities, people in other parts of the world would be even worse off, having less choice and of course an even higher price tag.

    Custom shop or not, they are regular production guitars. Regular production == for everyone who can afford them. As opposed to "for those with connections or loads of money at their disposal at any time" and other elitist things like that.

    Psychological or not*, I bought one knowing damn well that if I flip it, I'll lose at least half of the money I payed for it, and I'm cool with that (being from a poorer part of the world, I never had a luxury of good resale value on anything of value I payed money for anyway). I also know that if they retained their resale value really well, I wouldn't have one now.

    Crotch, you either don't read what I say carefully or just lack the mental capacity to understand that. You're so locked into your die hard "Buy 2-3 Historics a year and then flip them like crazy" and exclusivity mentality that...

    Resale value at the expense of afforability is a lame excuse.


    As 1 reply in this thread stated :

    "please stop pissing in the wind"


    Nothing Convoluted in you posts , Maybe you've wrote exactly what you meant ....
    Yup ,,,, Gibson's ,,, have ALWAYS Been expensive . And more so for the top of the line product line . But ,,, That's because of the marketing strategy used .... Which has the end result of making LOTS of MONEY . Just like in "Poor Counties" Business is Business . Doesn't make a difference where it's done.
    Funny thing is , Cheaper quality/made products , have a higher profit margin . It was never about making sure anyone who wanted 1 Gibson could afford to get 1. The price Gibson determined was in fact to make you want it even more ... Just because it was out of reach .....

    Also if you look at the buying process in reverse you might see how much TAX your Country puts ion importing a USA made product .... So ADD or Subtract (depending on how you want to look at it) that to the price .... Your own Country is sticking it to you .
    A lot of buyers of CS (LP's included) look at the possibility of re-selling for 1 reason or another .
    It is a factor weather you want to include it into your "thought" process or not .
    Yup , in the USA We have raised the worlds standard of living . with hard work , battles from workers to win demands for a better quality of life and working conditions (Yes and people died to get them) and educated innovation .... We were the Shining example .Were . Still the best Country on Earth. For now.

    Many ,here have the same "issue" as you do about Gibson . Just to expensive to buy the Best they offer... So Save until you have the $$$ to buy it . Nothing wrong with doing that .What's wrong is the thought process of thinking , it should be at a price that lets you buy it NOW. So you're happy ....
    Life Sucks ,sometimes ,,, But it's what it is .
     
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  18. Subterfuge

    Subterfuge Junior Member

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  19. Andy California

    Andy California Member

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    I'm sorry, you misunderstood me here (but that's fine). I'm fine with the price they are currently going for. I have no problems with their pricing at all. It's expensive, but it's doable.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  20. robertkoa

    robertkoa Junior Member

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    I am no expert on Les Pauls or Gibsons- but I was recently speaking on the phone with Jeff Silver from Jescar ( fretwire )- considered the Best by most Luthiers.

    I was asking him ( don't know him personally ) to send samples to a Canadian Company so that hopefully I could get it on one of their Guitars ....

    And I said- also you should get your Wire specified on Gibsons- every time I try a Les Paul the Frets are planed way down and are flat on top like Railroad Tracks ..and I saw your Wire ( EVO Gold - Jescar makes Nickel and Stainless also ) on the LP Supreme but that was the only one .

    He said that their Fretwire was used on Memphis Historics and Traditionals ( I may have gotten this wrong because I did NOT ask which Models ( 335s LPs etc.).
    I was surprised Gibson did not use Jescar Wire on all their Models- it's more precise and uniform to Install.
    Boutique Companies like Suhr , Anderson, and Carvin / Kiesel and even some better Korean Brands like DAngelico, Eastman etc.

    Jescar Nickel is about 10 to15% harder than regular Nickel and just feels slicker to bend on..

    Maybe $10 more per Instrument in cost ?
     

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