Frets on True Historics: My last question

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by lpthomas, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. lpthomas

    lpthomas Premium Member

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    I've asked about this here and there a lot, I apologize. This will hopefully be my last shot. So here goes:

    I'm probably going to do a M2M Les Paul this summer and contacted a handful of relatively big dealers internationally. I specifically asked about the possibility of "True Historic frets". Not once did I hear that these actually exist.

    Now, I understand, it's not about the wire, it's about the dressing. There's this article from The Guitar Magazine where the issue is discussed as well: http://www.theguitarmagazine.com/features/gibson-custom-shop-tour/

    So is this just some kind of misunderstanding on my part. Or is it, from Gibson's perspective, rather something that is different about the whole neck of a TH and not really anything that can be boiled down to frets.

    Someone, maybe mfolet, recently mentioned that the BRW LPs have the True Historic frets.

    Leaves me a bit confused.

    I'm sorry about the thread. I'll make up for it with NGD and pictures soon:fingersx:
     
  2. PierM

    PierM Black & Gold Premium Member

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    There are not "True Historic Frets", just fret wire, which is the same for all modern/latest historics, and is the Jescar 45100. I've never seen any proof of two different fret wire being used on historics, SH or TH, nor I've ever read Gisbon marketing any True Historic fret wire. I've myself measured those frets and they are just the same on both SH and TH. Dress may be a tad lower on the TH, but even in this case could be a random factor post PLEK.

    This if from Jescar in person;

     
  3. Crotch

    Crotch Support MLP Veterans & Vendors Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member

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    Are you possibly thinking of the "rolled binding"? Or specifically fret size? I have not heard anything except that some thought they were lower than regulars Historics.
     
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  4. alnico59

    alnico59 Senior Member

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    Do you actually prefer shorter fret wire?

    IMO 45/100 is still too small. Especially after a PLEK you could end up around 44-43. Most Luthiers recommend a re-fret around 35, so not much room there. The 50/078 on the Slash sounds better to me, a little narrow but better in height. Keeping in mind late 50's Gibson's used .095 (width) jumbo wire. I'd say 50/100 is a good starting point. I use 53/110. This way I have a few fret levels on tap before I'm ready for new frets.
     
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  5. alnico59

    alnico59 Senior Member

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    Believe it or not one of the biggest hurdles for me when buying a Reissue are the factory frets. So I spend 3-4K and then have to dump another $450 sooner than later for taller fret wire. Out of the box a stock Traditional is more playable for me. But then I have to replace wiring, electronics and plastics and possibly hardware. Can't win!
     
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  6. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

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    Same wire dressed lower. Didn't we cover this already?

    Again, watch the TH video on those other recent threads. Invest 15 to 20 minutes and you'll see first hand what the differences are.
    We're talking about really detail oriented differences here. That last 2% of improved playability to some. Others want taller frets and that's fine. That's why there are now two options. :doh:
     
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  7. Crotch

    Crotch Support MLP Veterans & Vendors Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member

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    They are telling him there isn't though. Thats what the issue is.
     
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  8. Tim Plains

    Tim Plains Senior Member

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    My Pearly has shorter/narrower frets than every other historic.

    TH prototype? :hmm:
     
  9. mudface

    mudface Senior Member

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    My CC 28 has taller/narrower (50/078) than any of my other historics which have 45/100.
     
  10. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

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    Many
    Many of the TH options were being done at Gibson on specific runs well before TH.

    One of the TH differences is that the bodies and necks are grain matched so they take the aniline dye in a similar fashion. This makes finished necks that are color matched to the backs.

    Chris Swope worked at Gibson Custom prior to working at Private Reserve with Dave Carpenter (Music Machine owner and creator of the MM Stingers and the Chambered Reissues and more...)

    Together with Chris, a Gibson Custom 'insider ' they created the DCHP runs. The necks in these were grain matched and weighed for the balance of the guitar while standing.

    Gibson had been using these TH improvements separately on various runs for years. On TH you get all these improvements on the whole run. There's a lot more to the THs than meets the eye.

    Again for the doubters, watch the f'n video and let Edwin Wilson and Tom Murphy show you those differences. It's not all smoke and mirrors like many are trying to have you believe. :cheers2:
     
  11. lpthomas

    lpthomas Premium Member

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    Thanks a lot! Things seem to clear up more and more for me.

    This was the post I was referring to. I probably got confused as I don't know much about the 2014s.

    So they did in fact not use 45/100 but something else?

    That probably plays into it. And I understand that it's also just the extra "attention" that goes into the neck, which in itself is a big part of the feel.

    Yes, we did. I know it's getting boring... Especially, since True Historic as we knew it is no more.

    Exactly. It did not seem to click for any dealer here. Hearing that there are two options, you'd think this is just some kind of imaginary check box: "TH dressing/finishing process for fret wire" – yes or no. There does not seem to be.

    And even if they build something to True Historic specs in every regard, I doubt you'd get any TH wording on the COA. Or do they? I'd love to be wrong. At least, that would be a really strange move. Then again, some members said, it's still possible to get a True Historic through M2M...

    I searched long and hard for mine and did get a good price. I like it a lot and, therefore, would just want to know my options when ordering sth. similar.

    I'll get back to the dealer later and maybe ask more specifically about TH. He told me it's possible but might be unreasonably expensive. Which, in turn, tells me that this is not really something they want to do often.

    Thanks! I appreciate the input.
     
  12. Farquad

    Farquad Double Platinum Supporter

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    The M2M's can be ordered with full TH specs. At least that was the case when I got mine last year.
    If you're going to order one, be as specific as possible on everything you want. They dont communicate much during the build process. (read that as not at all unless there is a problem on their end)
    So provide a neck range and all the specs you really really want.
     
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  13. KBMelb

    KBMelb Senior Member

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    Other than pups and less yellow binding my 2014 60th Anniversary B4 is indistinguishable to the a THB7. Rolled FB binding, thin finish, one piece body. Gibson didn't even try with TH BB plastics, knobs and tuners so...
     
  14. Subterfuge

    Subterfuge Senior Member

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    my True Historic 2017 Slash 58 Vos has Jescar followed by some number fretwire .. it's listed in the guitars specs on the Gibsons website, it's supposed to be a reproduction of the first 1958 burst .. yadda yadda .. that's all I know about it and all I care/need to know. I got tired of buying lesser guitars and endlessly modifying them, so I shot the wad on the TH and I ain't touching a friggin' thing ... peace at last
     
  15. lpthomas

    lpthomas Premium Member

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    Thank you! What did they call it then? M2M True Historic?
     
  16. Farquad

    Farquad Double Platinum Supporter

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    When I was going through what I wanted with my dealer, TH spec was one of the options.

    The box sticker (which is the only place that says M2M that I've seen) calls it:
    Custom Shop
    True Historic 1958 Les Paul Reissue
    Burl Top M2M

    The build code is: LPR8TM2M10931 I can only imagine that the 10931 is my order sequence.

    I hope this helps you. :)
     
  17. JUNAE9

    JUNAE9 Senior Member

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    Hi friends. I'll tell you part of my story. This story only going to end when I pick up the guitar in late January. I made a m2m and it is ready. One of my main demands was the fret jescar FW51108. From the photos, I can not see correctly, but I'm afraid they did not put the frets I chose (and I paid more $$$ for them). My M2M was an R0 project and came with R9 numbering. I will not comment anything else while not pick up and playing the guitar (I'm afraid the profile will not be slim taper V3). According to the saleswoman is everything as I request in my specs. I will wait and I will give some news soon.
     
  18. Crotch

    Crotch Support MLP Veterans & Vendors Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member

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    I'll be interested to hear.
     
  19. Farquad

    Farquad Double Platinum Supporter

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    If its not what you ordered, send it back. Fingers crossed that it is what you wanted.
     

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