Freddy's Build

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by Freddy G, Nov 19, 2016.

  1. fatdaddypreacher

    fatdaddypreacher V.I.P. Member

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    that's an interesting question, as i have zero capabilities with these so called 'hand-tools' that don't have a cord on them, and do mine as well on a table saw. i square the edges of the slabs, joint to get them flat, then make a slow, clean, steady pass on the table saw and wouldn't know how it could end up any better. i simply don't trust myself with a plane. this is one of the many reasons i've subscribed to this. it's nice to see a real craftsmen perform. we are blessed with quite a few on this forum. great video, freddy. thanks for taking much valuable time to do it so well and detailed.
     
  2. valvetoneman

    valvetoneman Senior Member

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    You have to use a hand plane imo, that's how I got taught and use a shooting board and light box, look at both sides of your joint too
     
  3. pshupe

    pshupe Senior Member

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    I've never thought of using my table saw to make a glue joint surface. I guess I could try but the basic rule of thought around taking rough cut lumber to finished dimensions is -

    1. buy rough material as Freddy did, much longer and wider than your finish dimension
    2. radial arm / sliding mitre saw / skill saw / hand saw - cut to rough length a couple inches each side of finished length.
    3. Jointer / hand plane - flatten one face
    4. Jointer / hand plane - square one edge

    This gives you 2 square perpendical sufaces to register to make completely square rectangular shape

    5. Table saw - cut to "almost" finished width
    6. thickness planer / sander - take to finish thickness
    7. Jointer / hand plane - joint mating surfaces - if it can pass the candle test right from the table saw, I guess it's good.

    This is the basic process for taking rough material to finish material. Depending on where you get your material you may want to joint and plane your rough material and let it sit to see if it moves then do this procedure again to finish dimensions. Some places sell wood that has too high of a moisture content and may move. Also figured wood is more prone to moving as there are more internal stresses. Sometimes wood is very tricky. I've had pieces with amazing figure that were completely stable and other times I have had what looked like fairly straight grained wood move like crazy.

    Cheers Peter.
     
  4. JackNorth2008

    JackNorth2008 Senior Member

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    Freddy who is the fellow you are working with?
     
  5. Skyjerk

    Skyjerk Meatbomb Silver Supporter

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    This is pretty much my process except I don't hand plane in steps 3 and 4.
    My jointer makes it flat and square enough for this stage.

    I use my hand planes when I'm ready to actually join tops, or wings, or something.
     
  6. Freddy G

    Freddy G V.I.P. Member

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    Hey guys,

    Thanks for joining me on this little journey!



    Gene, no, not a silly question at all! In fact the whole reason I'm doing this video series is not just for the sake of another build thread, but I want to highlight how and why I do things the way I do.

    To address your question....it's not just a matter of a tight joint. It's a matter of how the wood cells are cut, and that goes hand in glove with the way wood glues work.

    Everybody has heard of the method whereby you scuff sand two surfaces so the glue has something to "grab" onto. When little tentacles of glue seep into the voids created by abrasion this is called "mechanical adhesion". This is just fine for the way some glues work...such as epoxy. But wood glues (aliphatic resin, PVA, hide glue) work in a different way, by "specific adhesion"...which is chemical attachment due to the molecular forces between the wood surface and the glue. Specific adhesion is proven to be far stronger than mechanical adhesion.The action of a handplane cleanly slicing through wood cells in one continuous stroke sets up the ideal surface for gluing. All other mechanical (ie. rotary) methods of cutting will leave the surface scalloped, burnished or rough if even only at a microscopic level.

    If you recall in the video where I said that the surface after hand planing felt like glass, you might imagine that two surfaces prepared in such a way will have far less "nooks and crannys" or scallop marks from rotary machining and therefore a much larger area of intimate cellular contact. That's why in the video when I got the joint just right I said I could feel the surface tension....that's the moisture from the cleanly severed cells coming into intimate contact over the length of the joint.

    Having said all that, I will concede that this particular joint (maple top of a Les Paul) probably doesn't need this level of perfection simply because as I pointed out in the video, the entire top will be glued to the mahogany body....that's a huge surface. I admit I'm just old school in this regard, and I do get satisfaction from producing a perfect joint with a handplane whether it may be overkill or not! It's my normal procedure and I'm not going to change it now.

    But if you take it to a point where it becomes a serious issue for example the soundboard or the back of an acoustic guitar, then you may understand why it's important to maximize every bit of molecular adhesion possible. Those are very small edge joints....and in the case of a soundboard that small joint has to withstand loads, shear, tension and racking stresses.

    Another thing worth noting is that the prepared joint should be glued as soon as possible...as in the same day at the very least.


    That's my dad. He was trained as a fine furniture maker in Yugoslavia right after WW2. I owe much of my woodworking knowledge to his teaching.
     
  7. fatdaddypreacher

    fatdaddypreacher V.I.P. Member

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    ...and you see folks....that's what makes him freddy. great insight and explanation. thanks. me learned something today
     
  8. Paul46

    Paul46 Senior Member

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    This is going to be great! Thanks for taking the time to document the process Freddy.
     
  9. The Ballzz

    The Ballzz Senior Member

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    Thank you Freddie for the great answers. Please understand that the intention of my questions was certainly not meant to suggest different methods, but to instead increase my knowledge of why.

    I too love to watch a master craftsman ply his skills and will eagerly follow this already great thread! :cool: I'm fairly certain that my main take away from this will be enough knowledge to understand why I could not tackle such an ambitious endeavor! :sadwave: Even though I have a fair amount of basic skills and equipment to do a good job at "meatball" work, I think I would need another lifetime to master the skills required for this type of project. :)

    I may go as far as building something like a Telecaster from scratch, but will likely stop short of building my own neck. At my advanced age, I prefer projects that have a good chance of providing that great feeling derived from success, as opposed to repeated unsuccessful attempts that used to drive me to perfection in my younger days! While I still strive for perfection, I am learning to understand and accept my limitations in my choice of projects!

    But I digress, this thread is not about me, but instead about the enjoyment and celebration of our good friend Freddie's skills and his willingness to take the time and effort to share them with us!

    Thanks Again,
    Gene
     
  10. The_Nuge

    The_Nuge Senior Member

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    Excellent video! Thanks Freddy!
    And great to see you back in full force!
     
  11. b_rogers

    b_rogers Senior Member

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    Great video, can't wait for the series. Thanks Freddie!
     
  12. JackNorth2008

    JackNorth2008 Senior Member

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    That's my dad. He was trained as a fine furniture maker in Yugoslavia right after WW2. I owe much of my woodworking knowledge to his teaching.[/QUOTE]

    I thought it might be. Being so far away from dad I found it very heartwarming to see you and your father working together.
     
  13. TravisW

    TravisW Senior Member

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    Perfect timing for me. I'm kicking around the prospect of doing a semi-proper LP build in 2017. Subscribed!
     
  14. KP11520

    KP11520 Senior Member

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    I just love seeing you do what you do so well! I LOVE details and intellectual methodology! Thank you for sharing (again) with those of us who are (VERY) interested! Thank Dad too!

    It's good to see you frequenting this place again. I hope all is well and that gap never recurs in the future! (selfish reasons, I admit :shock:) I love to learn! Especially from more than one generation of fine experience! :thumb:

    Thanks Freddy! :cool:
     
  15. archey

    archey Senior Member

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    Thanks Freddy! I'm already learning thing just watching the first video. I'm very much looking forward to seeing the rest of the build.
     
  16. redking

    redking Senior Member

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    Love opening up the Luthier Section and seeing a thread by Freddy...building a burst no less!!! These are great days ahead!! :slash::jb:

    Also love seeing you work with your Dad, Freddy! You are both quite fortunate to get to spend this type of quality time with each other!
     
  17. akwusmc

    akwusmc Senior Member

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    Great video and awesome that you're doing this! I love the sound and feel of a well-tuned hand plane.

    Is it outside the scope of your series to discuss how you've tuned hand planes, how and how often you sharpen hand tools? I imagine in a working shop that sharpening happens either per-job or on a regular basis.

    aw
     
  18. Freddy G

    Freddy G V.I.P. Member

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    Thanks! Yeah, probably a bit outside the scope to go through a complete plane discussion. But it's funny....I use the scary sharp system...a series of float glass plates with progressively finer sheets of 3M abrasive attached and a roller/blade guide.

    That morning however I told my dad I'll be using the #6 fore plane....so he just popped the blade out and sharpened it the way he always does. Arkansas stones.... freehand / no guide.....snick, snack, snick, snack, shave some arm hairs, done. So old school....I've never been able to do that!
     
  19. valvetoneman

    valvetoneman Senior Member

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    I'd love to be able to do that too, the guy that taught me was like your dad, very skilled and great to watch
     

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