For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Discussion in 'Member Classifieds' started by TimGreer, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. TimGreer

    TimGreer Junior Member

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    Also just for the sake of the discussion about the pickups being stamped or not, a quick search here seems to show other people saying that they, too, have seen both stamped and stickered TTops on '74 Gibsons:

    http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/historics-reissues/23711-1974-20th-anni-custom-specs.html

    Of course, I am fair and admit that is not proof because others have observed it as well, but that it is a common thing as far as I'm aware, and my other LPC 20th Ann. guitar was all completely original (every part) and it also had the original pickups stamped. So, to be clear about what I meant, I can't verify that is the case for this particular pickup, and it's not really possible to prove the date of manufacture, regardless of it's a stamp or sticker, unfortunately, but it makes sense and is common enough where I didn't question it when I bought this guitar.

    I also had an embossed set from '72, and those were the only model that could have really been proven to be the date and model they were said (those were worth a lot of money, too, but the stamped TTops I had sounded so good that I didn't care and sold them). Again, the sound quality and tone being totally subjective, but I just mean it shouldn't add any suspicion about the pickup dates. It really, truly should be original, but there's always a 1% chance it's from a 75 or something, I totally admit that, because I can't prove otherwise (I just have no reason to believe otherwise).

    I hope that provides some clarification. If at any point someone can provide information to the contrary that is indisputable, I am most willing to amend the description and am happy to learn a new fact, so please don't hesitate (I won't be offended at all). In the meantime, I'm pretty informed about this particular model most of all, as I spent a great deal of time researching exactly what I wanted before I even started looking, so I don't say this only to benefit the sale, and I could happily sell the instrument without the pickup (I already have offers to buy it separately, in which case I can drop the price on the guitar down to $2,800 obo). Thanks for listening.
     
  2. TimGreer

    TimGreer Junior Member

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    Finally, I can provide a list of references, one's not shown on my ebay feedback, such as deals done over craigslist or Harmony Central, etc. I can also give you the reference of a celebrity guitarist by the name of Curt Mitchell (the guy that did the Learn to Burn and "In the Style of" cassette, VHS and DVD guitar lessons (over a million sold)), among others, whom are good friends of mine... though if anyone believes that Will Boggs is some authority or trustable and there's too much doubt about me, then if they are serious about buying the guitar, I have no problem taking it to him (he's only but a few miles from me, quite literally, and I wouldn't mind hanging out with him (or Greg, for that matter) again anyway). Cheers! :)
     
  3. b-squared

    b-squared Banned

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    Tim--I'm glad you're not offended by my questions, just clearing up a few things you don't mention in your write-up.

    Will is a well-respected member of the forum, and if I was interested in the guitar I'd have him look just to ensure it is what you say it is; as you could imagine a lot of members with very few posts come in, offer guitars, and our folks get something altogether different than what they paid for.

    About the T-Tops: Here's an interview with Lindy Fralin from the 1994 edition of Guitar Player:

    "T-Top Patent Number Pickups -The T-Top patent number decal pickups followed the non-T-Top patent number decal pickups that followed the original PAFs. The patent number decal pickups were produced from 1962 until 1975. During 1975 Gibson stamped the patent number into the bottom of the pickup's base and these markings lasted until the early 1990s. "

    That would lead me to believe that your pickup was manufactured in 1975 at the earliest. If you run the guitar's serial number you might be able to determine when the guitar was actually manufactured--I suppose if the guitar was manufactured late in '74, and sat around the factory until mid-'75 it could have gotten stamped T-Tops.

    BB
     
  4. TimGreer

    TimGreer Junior Member

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    You might be right, since late 74 could indeed mean 75 pickups. I'll look into it more, because I know an original 74 20th I had was verified to be original (I got it from the original owner whom never changed anything). That could explain it.

    Also, I understand where you're coming from. Will is a cool guy, and adding that trust and verification, especially with online deals, surely doesn't hurt (and I'm not opposed to it if that is what someone wants). After replying, I checked the site and saw the heavy involvement of Will here and associations with the different members and companies, so I better understand why that would provide the extra trust a deal might need from a new member. Sometimes it's a disadvantage being a new member and needing to (and rightfully so) earn the trust of the community. Thanks for your candor and input.

    I thought I mentioned the fact it likely had a fret job (it must have) in the ad (you can see I went to great lengths to cover every tiny detail), but I might have omitted that, and will look and remedy it in the description if needed.
     
  5. b-squared

    b-squared Banned

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    Cool man--wish I had the dough...I have a black '76 Custom, all original (I bought it in '82 or so). Always wanted a white one. :D
     
  6. TimGreer

    TimGreer Junior Member

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    I'm not kidding when I say I hate to sell this. I literally looked for a couple of years before I found one. The others were all sunburst, cherry or some color I didn't like a lot, and I wanted either a white or black. I knew the woods I wanted, and I played this model before and it was just so fast (before I ever played a LP, I thought they looked clunky and wasn't sure, though I liked the tone I was afraid it wouldn't play fast). So, when I played a good one and it was just silky smooth and so fast, I was sold.

    I've always been a fan of Rhoads and learned all his songs note for note long ago, so the white was just natural to want. Then, I found that he actually played a '74 white anniversary. I know there's some controversy on exactly the year and model was for his LPC, but one of the thousands of pictures of him playing his favorite one showed the engraving of the Twentieth Anniversary on the 15th fret, so I was even more sold on the idea, since that was already the model I had made up my mind to get. I'll have to find that picture of him playing showing the engraving.

    Ultimately, I plan to get this same exact guitar and model again when things are better financially. I just took an incredible beating in stocks the last year (in the tune of about $600K -- granted, it's only a loss if you take money out before it picks back up, but I needed some funds for a business and living expenses and it'll take years to pick up again). So, I am in a situation where I have to let my prized possession go. Oh well, I'll get another some day. Hopefully, whomever buys this will sell it back to me when I can buy it back (and it looks like I've got a buyer from the other day, but until we both agree on the offer and do it, it's not a done deal). Anyway, I'm getting depressed thinking about this. Luckily I have a lot of gear to still play, but the most desirable stuff sells the quickest, so this is it.
     
  7. b-squared

    b-squared Banned

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    Dude--I don't have near the $$ to lose, but I still don't look at my investments or 401(k)...too depressing.

    I have gear I can sell in a pinch...hopefully the time won't come. :D

    BB
     
  8. TimGreer

    TimGreer Junior Member

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    Well, all you can do is move on. I try and not let it get to me and I'm still young, but I don't like the idea of selling things I've worked hard for, so I don't lose other things I've worked hard for. So, parting with the Les Paul to get my '67 Camaro RS conv. restoration paid off so I can drive and enjoy it, after nearly 2 years in the shop for a complete restore, is something I'm not all too torn up about. I'm eager to enjoy that. Hopefully I can hold onto it. Anyway, enough sad news, things will pick up, and I'll get this same guitar (maybe in some months, or maybe a year or two). I wish I had found this site earlier, speaking of. :)
     
  9. dwagar

    dwagar V.I.P. Member

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    as with everything Gibson, nothing really changes on Jan 1st. The stamped plate TTops were a '75 change, but I think we've seen a few '74s with them.
    and they are worth, IMO, slightly less than the stickered TTops, but still quite a lot.
    You don't have to run the serial number on this guitar to know it's a '74, it has the inlay, trans tenon, mahogany neck.
    That refret job looks exactly like the refret on my '74, done years ago (before I bought it), but a lot of guys hated the fretless wonder frets Gibson was using. A refret is quite common on these, and almost a required upgrade.

    Before the crash, a clean original blonde '74 was worth approx $5500-6K and rising. Who knows what a real value is today, but I think Tim is asking a very reasonable price. I don't think I'd sell mine for that.

    Because I own one, I'm very interested in them. Some notes:
    - anniversary year (not all have the inlay, mine doesn't)
    - Kalamazoo guitar
    - trans tenon (aka modified long tenon), although a few show up later, this is really the last year prior to the change to short tenon.
    - first year of this color
    - last year of mahogany necks
     
  10. TimGreer

    TimGreer Junior Member

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    Just to note, I've heard some people say that all '74 Les Paul Customs were anniversary models, but they all weren't (just like all Les Paul Customs made in the same year as the 25th, 30th, 40th anniversary models weren't all anniversary models), but some anniversary models did lack the inlay, which is just confusing. so they did produce a lot of normal Les Paul Customs, along with the anniversary models.

    I think asking Gibson (about the pickup) would help, even though sometimes they don't even know for sure, but yeah, the guitar is definitely a 74, and of course the serial numbers agree. The pickup, it's just too hard to tell. It could be original, because it did happen in some 74's, but unless it was original to this particular guitar, it's just impossible to say. I'll have to make that clear to the buyers somehow on the description (I had already updated the page yesterday about the fret job (which I thought I did mention) and pickup cover, so I just need to outline the information about the "original pickup" aspect, and that'll be hard to explain).
     
  11. TimGreer

    TimGreer Junior Member

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    Update: Contact me in the next couple of days, and I'll let this go for $2,500 (without the extra pickup). $2,650 with the extra pickup. Shipping in the US 48 should probably be about $80 and I can ship right away (and I'll refund any difference if the shipping is less than $80 USD). I'll give this a couple of days and otherwise I'll list it on ebay. Thanks.
     
  12. matt@msscguitar

    matt@msscguitar www.MSSCGuitar.com Premium Member MLP Vendor V.I.P. Member

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    Sweet guitar, Tim. If I had the cash, I'd be all over this. Good luck in the sale!
     
  13. TimGreer

    TimGreer Junior Member

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    Thanks for the well wishes. I have a good amount of interest, it's just about the money. I can relate, since I'd not be selling this if I was up $2,500 more this month myself. :) I don't know if it's a good or bad thing, but I'm in no rush to sell it, even though I need the money, so needing the money bothers me less than it should right now.
     
  14. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Banned

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    in mid 74 is when they went from stickered to stamped Pat No T-Tops, so these could easily be original pups.
     
  15. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Banned

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    1983 at least.
     
  16. TimGreer

    TimGreer Junior Member

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    Thanks for the info, I had thought they were completely out of MI by late '79.
     
  17. TimGreer

    TimGreer Junior Member

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    I've decided to sell the extra pickup to someone that really wanted it (and so there's no question about it with this sale), so the price is now $2,500 for the guitar. I'll list it on ebay if this doesn't sell here by Friday. Thanks.
     
  18. murkat

    murkat V.I.P. Member V.I.P. Member

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    email sent.
     
  19. murkat

    murkat V.I.P. Member V.I.P. Member

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    Done deal gentlemen. :)
     

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