For all wanna be guitarists out there..Read before you post.

Discussion in 'Guitar Lessons' started by Phil47uk, Aug 15, 2010.

  1. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    Thanks for your input JAcKedOz, much appreciated I can assure you.
    Well of course that is the problem..Mortgages,family, jobs etc. Take all that into consideration and there isn't a great deal of time to concentrate on ones music.
    Back in the 60's and 70's one could make a decent living at playing back in London, but times have changed and I wouldn't want to rely on it now.
    That's why at some point I realized I could not survive on just gigs alone, plus the fact I was getting older and really didn't want to do all that travelling any more, so I did the next best thing. I supplemented my gigs with teaching and landed myself some good teaching jobs which were very well paid and where I was basically my own boss with local education authorities.
    Some guys have said to me " How can you do that Phil doesn't it drive you nuts?"
    Yes, sometimes it does, but then what is the altrnative? Get a day job..:shock:..Phewww! No thanks, at least I'm still playing guitar and can start and finish when I want and take off any days I want too.

    It's a great pity, because one of my old friends and probably one of the best jazz electric bass players in the UK told me that he simply didn't have the patience to teach. Since then gigs have dried up in London and he's now down to one regular jazz gig a week and the last time I spoke to him he was cleaning out public toilets to make extra money. You would cry if you heard this guy play..What a bloody waste.

    These days I still get offered lots of gigs, but most I turn down, as unlike all the years I have been playing and having to take all sorts of work, I can now pick and choose the gigs I want to do and that makes me a lot happier.
    Most of the time I work with either my daughter, or Mutter Slater from Stackridge. I enjoy gigs with old Mutter as he's an old pro and we just get to a gig..He shouts out a key, then 1--2--3--4 and away we all go.:laugh2:

    You often get people who come up and say. "Wow! how long have you guys been together?".. We just laugh and say.."Since this afternoon".:laugh2:
    We may have one drummer one week a different bass player the next, but we can call on a pool of players to suit whatever gig we are doing.

    People often think the life of a pro player is all about getting laid, drugs and booze..:laugh2:. Well I suppose it can be sometimes, but in the main it's a job like any other job and not a fun night out with the lads.It's a job one has to take seriously, because if you don't, you can soon find yourself washed up on the rocks quicker than you could imagine.
     
  2. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    Yes, and the great thing Stranger is that when you do get through to a youngster and you see him/her blossoming out and performing, it makes one very happy for them.
    I often get more of a kick watching my pupils perform and go down well than I do getting up there myself. I just love the look on their faces when they realize for the first time. " Hey I can do this and people are actually liking it"...Priceless..
     
  3. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    :lol:.. Hey colchar, my wife was once at a Hendrix gig at a London college in the 60's and he was so bombed out of his head, that he actually got booed off stage and people demanded their money back.
    She was standing about ten feet away from him and said appart from her going deaf for about two days, he was staggering around all over the place playing bum notes everywhere. Just shows the multi faceted sides of rock heros doesnt it? :laugh2:
     
  4. Happy Grumpz

    Happy Grumpz Senior Member

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    That seems to work for me :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
     
  5. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    :lol:........:applause:

    No it probably wouldn't work Huw. I would have to add the words 'Slash Tone' in the title for some to even glance at it. :laugh2:

    Well, the reason I posted this thread, is that like yourself, I take my playing very seriously and one evening reading through the threads got slightly pissed off at just how much input and help some of you guys put into here and how often the initial poster wouldn't even come back to their own thread to at least acknowledge the time, effort and knowledge you had put in on their behalf.
    Obviously this isn't always the case and there are some very thoughtful people who do make a great effort.

    My post was really aimed at the people who start threads, recieve good advice from the likes of yourself and others and who just simply dissapear off the face of the earth without even as much as a thanks.
    Then to rub salt into the wound the next thing you see is the same person starting of a completely different thread and doing exactly the same thing..:shock:

    This isn't about adulation and having to come forward to a few and say "Thank you O' wise one for your guidance'.. It's simply a matter of common courtesy, to whoever posts a genuine reply.

    A prime example is a recent post from a guy who wants to know about guitar tuition and how often he should receive it.
    Luckily I had already posted a reply to someone who had asked the same question ( Who also didn't bother returning to his own thread ) and all I had to do was copy and paste it as a reply....The guy never came back..

    All I am saying here is 'people.'. If you want some genuine advice from people like Huw and Quill etc who do have experience in the particular field you are posting about, then for heavens sake have the bloody common courtesy to at least acknowledge their input and help on the subject and if you don't understand, then ask questions.

    Don't forget, these guys already often know many of the answers to the questions you are seeking and certainly don't need to be here replying to you. They do so out of the goodness of their own heart, in their time and do not charge you. Go round to their house for the same information and it could cost you over $40 an hour.

    This is a great forum with some very knowledgeable people, so let's try and keep it that way, because if we don't then these people may simply choose to move on and that would be a pity as it would end up like 'Harmony Central' ....Full of cretins.:laugh2:

    Phil.:)
     
  6. EasyAce

    EasyAce Senior Member

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    Bull's eye!

    Mister, you're a better man than I. Sometimes I don't get the faintest idea that fast. And I end up asking myself, "What the [four-letter euphemism for fornicate] was that?" when I surprise myself.

    Then, when I think I have the answer, I shoot it right back out of my head and remind myself, "No, don't ask. You just nailed something special. Let it speak for itself and go on to the next something-special hunt. You might be even more surprised next time!"
     
  7. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    :laugh2:.
    Hi EasyAce,

    I just love the spontaneity of music..Saying what you have to say there and then on the spot like a good conversation.
    I don't really enjoy set pieces half as much..It's a bit like reading a script.

    But then that's the great thing about knowing a bit of theory and reading. When you need to read the music you can and when you want to chuck it in the bin and fly with the birds, you are free to do so also. There are no constraints.
     
  8. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    :lol:.:laugh2:
     
  9. Mattyboy

    Mattyboy Senior Member

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    Hey Phil,

    You are a great source of information. Anyone who doesn't take advantage of it is doing themselves an injustice.

    Oh & by the way-:dude: :laugh2:
     
  10. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    Very kind of you to say that Mattyboy, thanks, but I was actually making a stand for the guys who do regularly post in here and help out others far more than I ever do.
    My contribution in here is miniscule compared to some, as I only post now and again.
    ( Usually with a rant of some sort).:laugh2:

    :dude:
     
  11. jerryo

    jerryo Senior Member

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    I am playing catch up... was the ii-IV-I thing covered yet?

    It is starting to take some shape in my mind and seem to work very well with
    minor scales.

    (PS:i drive and live in an 18 wheeler ....so i log on when i can and grab what i can before I take off driving all about the western states..thats why i miss a lot of stuff) :(
     
  12. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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    :shock:

    :hmm:

    You mean I could charge for this?

    :dude:

    :laugh2:




    (and that is the first time I think I've ever knowingly used that smiley...)
     
  13. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    Well as I tell people, Try walking into your local vets and ask him to spend 30 mins chatting about your cat's latest ailment.
    They usually get the point.:laugh2:

    As some guy once said to me. " Hey Phil you are quite expensive for an hours tuition compared to some of the others round here."
    My reply was " You aren't paying for an hours tuition"
    " So what am I paying for then?" he asks.
    "Forty five years of experience old son."
    :laugh2:
     
  14. FrankieOliver

    FrankieOliver Senior Member

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    My wife's uncle is an exceptional guitarist, but he can't teach. He has a good ear as they say, but if ask him a question, he is unable to clarify. He doesn't know the language, that is, any music theory. Last I heard he's been trying to catch up. I wonder why in his fifties he'd even bother. Perhaps he hasn't been managing well with others that he's been playing with because of.

    This is what restricts my learning. I cannot advance because I do not know that language. Of course I could watch a Youtube video and read tabs and learn a song and certainly, that will give some sounds that I had not encountered before, but so what. I'll know that song and can whip it out at the next family gathering and impress everyone, including little cousin Foo Foo who's already got a few years of music theory and violin under her belt, but when she starts talking the language of music and that song I just played or she whips out that fiddle and asks me to try such and such with her, I'll need to excuse myself to relieve the pressure building up in the plumbing that connects to my arse.

    Anyway, I do not know enough of the language yet and so I cannot even begin to ask questions because I wouldn't know how to phrase them. That limits me to how do I get from here to there without understanding why that would sound good in the first place. I know that the more I understand about theory, the fretboard, the more I begin to recognize patterns with my ear. These are simple 'Eureka!' moments for me. Then I can apply some technique and see what I can do with that. Some simple phrasing.

    I'm astonished at how many people post that the first song they learned was some fancy Led Zep song or other. Mine was twinkle Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. :laugh2:
     
  15. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    Well you have hit the nail firmly on the head Frank with the Twinkle Twinkle Little Star analogy.
    Most people can play better than can read and therein lies the problem.
    Show them Twinkle Twinkle Little Star and they look at you as if you are mad, but that is exactly where they should start to learn how to sight read.
    They pick up a piece of tab which they can play, look at the actual music and say " Bollocks who want's to learn that" and so the vicious circle continues, as it's often far more difficult to read the music than play it. Write down a simple blues solo in notation and it would be a pig to read.

    Twinkle Twinkle Little Star is exactly what one should start to learn with regard sight reading. Don't go by how you think it goes, use your ear and start guessing.. Just simply play what is written.
    The problem is that people just run ahead of themselves and that is why most people don't learn to read with regard the guitar. Of course it's also much harder to sight read on a guitar as written music was actually developed for the piano and not an instrument like the guitar where you can find middle C in more than one place.

    With regard teaching, it doesn't automatically follow that the better player you are, the better teacher you are. Teaching is all about communication and how you can relate and put across things to individuals. And as each individual is different, it's often not as easy as it might seem. The teacher must connect with the pupil and more importantly the pupil must connect with the teacher.

    Half that stuff you see on you-tube is merely demonstrating and telling people where to put their fingers. A good one to one with a teacher goes a lot lot deeper than that. It's all about trust.

    There is a little test I do with pupils using neuro linguistic programming and I actually use a type of hypnosis on certain people. It's a bit complicated to explain, but basically the more power and control I have over an individual the more open and susceptible the pupil is to letting everything I say sink in. In other words they put their total trust in me.
    The ones that fight it prove to be the most awkward students who unknowingly fight what you say and are tense.

    It's a very interesting subject.
     
  16. SoloDallas

    SoloDallas Senior Member

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    Superb comment Frank.
    My first one was "Oh, Susanna" on a single string. Two, maybe.

    Now I play that one to my son - and he dances to it as I sing it, too - but I play it with chords :p
     
  17. FrankieOliver

    FrankieOliver Senior Member

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    Exactly. My lesson preparation for second grade literacy, which usually took the better part of a weekend, was based on the needs of individual students in the class. This is first and foremost. So, I'm teaching 'inferencing' to the whole during a class lesson, but I have to take into consideration learning styles of individual students and be certain that I am teaching to them, too. So, after using a painting and then lyrics for a song to teach 'inferencing' to the whole, asking them, for example, to describe the mood of the Monalisa, making simple inferences, I then had to approach individual students during their independent reading time and apply even more constuctive approaches to help them understand why so and so in that chapter they are reading is behaving the way she is. "Well, what was Junie B. Jones doing before she stepped in that pile of dogshit?" Cause and effect. :laugh2:

    The thing is, little Johnny may be able to read the text, that is 'decode,' and finish the book in two days, but he is unable to describe what the story was about.

    The use of art in literacy, which I brought in fresh to my classroom and then began to be utilized by others (even the geniuses at Columbia University where I attended hours and hours of useless workshops weren't promoting this), was rather effective. Why? Many children have a hard time visualizing what they are reading: mood, setting, cause and effect, etc. Why again? They're in a rush to fill up their reading log with a shitload of books and their parents can argue that they are reading on such and such a level. :rolleyes:

    Anyway, what I have been doing while going back to basics here, is trying figure out a constructive approach to help me understand.

    Interesting. It's got me thinking about how I made connections with students and how I got them to...simply listen and process what I was saying. Well, one thing is, I spent a lot of time reading those books that the children were reading. In sitting with a student, I had to be personally involved with the same characters they were reading about. I had to know Junie B. Jones if that student was reading any of the books in that series; E.B White's characters and so on. It's difficult trying to help a student connect with a character in a story if the teacher simply doesn't know it. It was a lot of fun being able to sit down and have a book discussion with them, on their level. Anyway, I may consider hypnosis as an alternative approach...for me. :laugh2:
     
  18. River

    River Senior Member

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    I don't remember the songs, but even though I was older and said "teach me the Blues", my teacher made me go through books I and II of one of those "old standard" lesson plans. I enjoyed them, actually.

    After that, he wrote everything out for me in both tab and standard notation - he could write that shit out faster than I can sign my name. :)

    I learned to read piano music when I was very young, so I get the relationships (relative steps), timing, and dynamic notations. But I still can't read key signatures and don't know where the written notes are on the guitar like I do on the piano.
     
  19. colchar

    colchar Banned

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    For me it was London Bridge is Falling Down.
     
  20. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    Yeah Frank, I think analogies outside the subject and taken from every day life help a student understand the larger overall picture.
    The problem these days in a world of exams after exams is that most of it is purely regurgitable knowledge and is usually forgotten after most walk through the school gates for the last time.
    It's all about bums on seats and targets to enhance the schools status in the community.. A bit like a sausage conveyer belt. :laugh2:

    What is sadly lacking these days within the teaching fraternity are teachers who can inspire, but unfortunately these are a dying breed for the simple reason that most professionals in a subject steer clear of education because of all the nonsense and constraints.
    You are therefore left with a whole bunch of box tickers who are usually not much wiser than the kids they are teaching for the simple fact of..'Where have they been?'
    Most have gone from school, into college, then on to maybe a University to obtain a degree. Then.. back into school again. In other words they are institutionalised.
    You can spot them a mile off in any staff room. They walk about with reams of paper and their sole topic of conversation is.." Have you seen year nine? I think their key stage bla bla literacy papers will be arriving tomorrow".
    They usually wear Chino trousers, a tie that doesn't go with the shirt and eat organic cheese sandwiches and an apple for lunch.
    Sometimes I have to bite my tongue from saying " Oh fuck of and get a life will you". " No wonder the kids haven't got a fucking clue because you certainly don't".
    Gone are the days when I went to school and you could smell the pipe tobacco down the corridor and when you went in, there was the Geography teacher with his feet up on his desk surrounded by a blue haze of pipe smoke.
    Now this guy had really been an explorer and been to all these weird and wonderful places we had only read about in books, or seen on TV.
    He'd usually start with " Now did I ever tell you boys about the time we rounded a bend on an Amazon tributary at dusk and all we could see were eyes staring out at us from the jungle?"
    This guy could rivet 39 boys from a tough area London school to the spot and made lessons a joy to attend.
    Those days I'm afraid are nearly all but gone.

    Yeah, check up about neuro linguistic programming. it's a very interesting subject.
    I got to know about it when I was once giving this boy a lesson and his father who happened to be a psychologist said to me after the lesson. Mmmm! Fascinating you have obviously studied neuro linguistic programming.:shock:.. "What the hell is that?" I asked.
    He then went on to tell me that evidently I used it all the time naturally and some people spend years studying it. :hmm:
    Take Margaret Thatcher for instance. He told me that she had lessons in it and if you noticed she was never rattled in a debate.
    "Watch her eyes" he said. When she is being interviewed on TV she never gets rattled simply because when someone calls you a liar, most people's eyes start to shift around, but she was taught to look beyond the TV camera and the interviewer at a fixed point and therefore you didn't see any reaction in her face.

    There is a great test using this, which I'll tell you about one day. Try that on people and you'll soon get to know who trusts you and who doesn’t.

    Here is a vid re eye movement.
    VC=Visual Construct

    VR=Visual Recall

    AC=Auditory Construct

    AR=Auditory Recall

    K=Kinesthetic (Feelings i.e. Touch/Feel)

    AD=Auditory Internal Dialogue

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl9sOYPT5UY[/ame]


    Using the above helps you to sometimes know whether what you are saying is actually registering with the pupil.
     

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