For all wanna be guitarists out there..Read before you post.

Discussion in 'Guitar Lessons' started by Phil47uk, Aug 15, 2010.

  1. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    I don't post a great deal these days, as most of the time it's like knocking your head against a brick wall, but I'd thought I'd post this on behalf of the few in here who do know what they are talking about and offer their valuable free time to give advice.

    It is quite noticeable that many people come into forums like this and post valid questions, be it about guitar lessons, Slash tone, or whatever turns them on, but it has become noticeable of late how few actually return to the thread they have started, to discuss or respond to the replies.

    If you want instant success and only post so you can receive replies that you want to hear, only think you need to hear and don't intend returning to, then don't post questions in the first place.

    There are many genuine posters in here, who would like tips from more experienced players, so please don't clutter the place up with a bunch of crap, just because you like hearing your own voice and increase your post count.

    I have seen some very informative and in depth replies to questions from the likes of people like Huw and Quill re theory etc, who thread starters obviously haven't bothered returning to, or reply at most with a monosyllabic response of..

    Dude :dude: ....:shock:

    Well if that's all you muster for a reply, then I sincerely think you should go and take some lessons in communication skills before you start worrying about playing the guitar, because you've got no fucking chance.:laugh2:

    I have read all sorts of stuff in here over the years, from sound professional advice to the biggest heap of crap you are likely to set eyes on, so let's get a few thing straight before I wind up my rant for the day..

    1....There is no such thing as instant overnight success.

    2...Practise and more importantly combined with performance is the only way forward.

    3...Knowing theory cramps your style......Absolute bollocks.

    4...Thinking that to know a lot of theory somehow makes you a better musician.. Just as equally another load of absolute bollocks.

    5......Knowing something about theory helps you to expand and broaden your musical horizons and communicate in certain situations. Nothing more, nothing less.

    6.... Beware of people who offer you the world with 'The ultimate guitar lesson course '... Another equally load of old bollocks, because everyone is an individual and has his or her own learning curve and personality traits.

    7.... There is a lot more psychology and communication skills involved in successful teaching then most would ever imagine. In other words..'One man's meat could quite easily be another man's poison'. So don't think for an instant that because guitar lessons from Fred worked for Johnny, they will necessarily work for you.


    8.....If you receive a reply from someone who is more knowledgeable than you and you don't understand the reply..Debate..Ask questions. Don’t just sit there like a spare prick at a wedding and hit the dude smiley.
    Use the word WHY?. A small word sadly missing from most peoples vocabulary..If you don't understand what I mean by that, I suggest you find the fable of 'The Kings new clothes' on you-tube and watch it. :rolleyes:

    9.... So who the hell am I to come on here and give my opinion?
    Well before anyone asks that, I have played professionally since 1964. Have done more gigs than most in here have had hot dinners. Have over 30,000 hours guitar teaching experience as senior county guitar tutor with a few ex pupils even turning pro and performing at places like Glastonbury.
    I have also bought a big house in the country and raised three kids without having to have done a day job in my life.
    Enough credentials I think to satisfy most critics.

    10... If you don't agree of course , that's your prerogative and you are free to think I am talking absolute crap and have no idea what I'm talking about.

    11..That's fine by me...


    :laugh2:

    Phil.
     
    jimmy-j, antz, xxjagerxx and 32 others like this.
  2. Leumas

    Leumas Senior Member

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  3. DoctorSkullington

    DoctorSkullington Senior Member

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    Thanks.
    Sorry when I don't return to my theads, I simply forget.
     
  4. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    Piss off...:laugh2:
     
  5. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    Ah, but the good point in your favour DoctorSkullington is that at least you did reply and that's all part of the learning curve.

    I once stupidly replied to a guy in here who was asking a question on vibrato.
    I went into great depth explaining the technique involved and recieved no response whatsoever.
    Then another guy posts below me with the reply.. 'Listen to Page dude ' :shock: and the initial thread starter came back with..:dude:

    Now I'm not trying to advocate that there are some in here that are high and mighty, know all the answers and deserve replies, but simply that people follow through the thread they start and at least acknowledge replies to their question. That's just simply common courtesy.

    Failure to do so will only in the long run serve to deter more experienced members responding to questions and that would be a pity, because all you'd have left is 'The blind leading the blind'. :laugh2:
     
  6. Leumas

    Leumas Senior Member

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    You can lead a horse to water, Phil. I'm a bit more set in my ways than the gang that is just starting out. I sidestep all of the response business by jumping in on other people's threads. I've learned more theory from yourself and those who post about it just by peeking in from time to time.

    It is valuable, and it is appreciated. If it takes me to say it, so be it. I don't want to come down on all kids or anything, but you just don't have the perspective if you're a teen now about how valuable this place can be. The older a guitarist is, the harder they've had to work to acquire the knowledge to play the instrument.

    I hacked away at chord books and song books, I think that's pretty much universal. I also played along to millions of CDs...those older than me could say "bah, I had to drop the needle to the record, try that!" and so on and so forth. The sheer volume of information readily available to those who got into the game during the internet age is at once overwhelming, but also generates a lack of appreciation of a time when you had to go and search this shit out.

    So, at the risk of sounding old before my time, these kids don't know how good they have it.
     
  7. DoctorSkullington

    DoctorSkullington Senior Member

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    I think the best way to learn and gain knowledge of your istrument is a mixture of listening to your teacher, using your ear, using your eyes, and some good old discipline.

    I wish I had more discipline, and I wish I practiced more.

    I don't think I should be playing guitar if I forgot about a thread I made...

    Anyway yeah, listen to Phil. He's right, reply and appreciate and learn. Or leave, give up and be a boring office worker.
     
  8. mudfinger

    mudfinger Thanks for the memories! V.I.P. Member

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    I can't speak to some of the other points you made, as I'm not a teacher, and haven't taken lessons, but as a working guitarist who's dealt with alot of session players and jazz cats over the years...I think there's alot of wisdom in points 1 thru 6, even if I truncated 6 a bit for effect. :naughty:

    Number 2, above all else; you can play in your bedroom for 20 years and still be way behind the 3-chord hack playing gigs with an actual band; music is fundamentally a shared experience between people. Take that element out, and it's just a buncha notes.

    Number 4 hits home for me because I've just never been all that interested in theory for its own sake, and I've encountered so many players over the years who confuse knowledge of theory with the ability to actually play. Drives me nuts, it does!

    Gotta say, Phil, much respect for telling it like it is...:dude: :laugh2:
     
  9. River

    River Senior Member

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    You don't subscribe to your own threads? :hmm:

    Phil, I'm one of the oldest students here. I've learned more from you, huw, Quill, SoloDallas, mudfinger, StrangerNY, Leumas, Geo, Cookie (and many others) than I've learned in decades. Much as I lament the ADD and lack of manners, I have to admit most of that has been gleaned from threads started by others - others who often never come back, or come back, take, and run without so much as a :dude:.

    Thanks to you, I even helped a fellow student ferret out the need for a minor 7th chord in a cover song the other day. I couldn't have done that without you, and simply can't let the fact that I didn't get so much as a "thanks, man" for it bother me in the least. It helped me more than it helped him anyway.
     
  10. Leumas

    Leumas Senior Member

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    I don't think there is a universal best way. There's good ideas, and tried and true methods, but everyone learns at their own pace. I equate learning to play an instrument with catching lightning in a bottle, slowly, over the course of years.

    That's just reactionary thinking.

    It's not black and white like that. 99% of people who play music will never make a dime off of it. It's sure worth it though.
     
  11. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    Good post Leumas, thanks.
    Well. I think today is a very instant society and that's not just me being an old fart. Many young people want it yesterday, but having said that, there are still loads out there who listen and put in a great deal of effort and I'm the first to be proud of them, as I was at the May MLP meet.

    My wife summed it up quite well this morning.
    She runs a garden center and is amazed at how clueless many of the young part time workers are. She said they are a whizz at the till when it comes to buttons that give you answers, such as press this button and it will discount the sale item and tell you how much change to give the customer..But.. If the computer till goes down they are completely lost. They can't work out a percentage if it bit them in the arse and simply can't function on their own intiative.
    One girl yesterday sold a small plant for £5 then proceeded to ring up £5 on the till for the second plant the guy had, which was the same plant but about two feet high. When my wife asked her why she hadn't looked at the price label the girl replied.."Well it's the same plant isn't it", to which my wife replied, "well don't you think by looking at it, you can see it's a much older matured plant and therefore more expensive".
    The girl just stared at her blankly. :laugh2:

    The internet is a very good thing, but also can serve up a load of misleading crap if you don't know much about a subject and don't know where to look and can do more harm than good in some cases.
    Let's face it, how many people here would go on a amateur medical forum and post a question about say not sleeping well, recieve a reply from someone called Mediman200 which recommended taking three purple pills called Mexodyloxine dioxide ten times a day after meals. Stroll of to the nearest pharmacist and start taking them?
    One expects to hear a professional diagnosis from a qualified doctor and recieve the correct treatment, so why not with their music. I sometimes wonder if some people actually give it any thought.
    :laugh2:

    But! It's not so much that I'm really going on about, it's more aimed at people who ask questions and don't bother acknowledging replies or returning to their own thread full stop.
     
  12. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    You can get there DoctorSkullington, it just takes time and a great deal of perseverance. If I could do it. .Anyone can. :laugh2:
     
  13. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    Well, I hear a lot about this theory thing and the arguments that ensue and I can never see what all the fuss is about.

    I know people who know more theory than myself and everyone in here put together, yet they are crap players and play like they have a steel rod stuck up their arse. :laugh2:
    I also know people who know no theory yet are lovely players.
    Knowing theory for theories sake means nothing if you can't express yourself on your instrument.
    What it can do however is to show you areas of music that you wouldn't have had a clue about had you not known the theory behind it and of course it as also a form of communication, much like the written word.
    Some people will be quite content without knowing any theory at all and others will find at some point they will need it.

    With re..Me telling it like it is.. Well, I suppose I am very vocal on issues like this, as music is my living and other than my family, is my whole world and I take it very seriously. I'm pretty much crap at most other things in life and would not dive in not quite so readily on other subjects. Talk repairing cars and DIY and I'm in water way out of my depth.:laugh2:
     
  14. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    It's not that I mind if people glean information and move on. That's fine by me and I am as guilty as the next man with regard that. It's the initial thread starter who starts threads and never participates in them..That I don't really understand.
    It's bit like me posting a thread that said.'What is the difference beteen a minor and major pentatonic scale?. Then yourself and loads of others take the time to explain to me.. I then don't bother returning to thread and if I do, it's for one reply to all the posts, which is to a guy who said.. 'Listen to Page and Slash man' to which I reply..'.Dude you are the man'..:dude:

    :hmm:

    Perhaps it's just me...:laugh2:
     
  15. River

    River Senior Member

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    I blame a combination of ADD, sense of entitlement, and bad manners.

    All too often, I get the same treatment when I buy a kid a beer or an ice cream sandwich. They don't get seconds.
     
  16. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    Mabe it's our age River...:laugh2:

    Mind you, having said that, nobody could ever accuse me of not showing any interest and participating with young players. Hell! I bent over backwards to put all those young guys on at the last UK MLP meet and am always putting on events for them to perform at.
    All I ask in return is they put in some input from their end.

    I was once at a concert and a woman turned to me and said." How comes that boy is up there on stage and my son who shares lessons with him is sitting here in the audience? I have a hell of a time trying to get him to practise". I replied " Madam you have just answered your own question. See that boy up there on stage, he lives eats and sleeps his guitar and in fact his Mother has to tell him " Put that guitar down and go to bed ". You don't think that Picasso's wife or Mother had to tell him." Come on now Pablo, it's 6:30pm. Time to paint a picture.
    The Mother got the point..:laugh2:

    This thread will be on page two by tomorrow though, as I can bet you a penny to a pound a great deal of people will look at it and click off even before they get past the first sentence..Simply because it's not what they want to hear.
    I sincerely hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

    I need a revival in my faith of mankind, but somehow I don't think it's going to happen..Not today anyway..:laugh2:
     
  17. River

    River Senior Member

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  18. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    :lol:. I'm sure you've got it right River.. I'll have a listen later as my wife want's to use the computer.

    Hey! at least the guy who posted the thread is conversing with you and you have a communication thing going.
    That's great..

    :)
     
  19. River

    River Senior Member

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    Well, sorta. Until he got what he wanted.
     
  20. alankelly

    alankelly Senior Member

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    I've been thinking about this for a couple of days, and you just reminded me that I don't practice nearly enough. I mean, I do practice... just not as long as I could on my days off.

    Heck, even my practice time turns into noodling sessions after a few minutes of trying to do something structured to help my playing. Sure is fun though.

    Anyway, while we don't always respond like we should -- believe me --- people do appreciate the help that is passed down from our Guitar God Elders. I think it's a matter of us all having a little ADD nowadays.

    P.S. Maybe they are too busy practicing what you told them to respond in a timely manner. :thumb:
     

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