Fender Princeton Fudge Brownie

Discussion in 'The Squawk Box' started by Big John, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. Big John

    Big John banned, mentally V.I.P. Member

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    A local buddy took delivery yesterday of this amp from AMS. He said this morning on the phone that Fender knocked it out of the park with this one. So we're going to get together tonight and have a little 3-amp shootout. The Princeton along with his Blues Jr and then I'm bringing one of my Mesa Subway Blues combos. I'll probably bring my Zoom Q2 and record the dealyo.
     
  2. Marshall & Moonshine

    Marshall & Moonshine Senior Member

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    Yeah! I can’t wait to hear it. The Blues Jr gets.....”mixed reviews”, to put it nicely. I got the impression that it was to the Princeton what the Hot Rod Deluxe was to the Deluxe. I also get the impression that a better cab design and maybe speaker from the get go might have made it a working man’s classic, like the HRD is.
    (Folks can deny it, but I read somewhere that the HRD is the top-selling amp OF ALL TIME, so obviously there’s something to it. Anyway, don’t mean to digress...:))
    I love that Fender is doing ok the reissues and tweaked reissues. I wish Marshall would do the same at the same price point. I bet they could put the Studio 15 back out there, or do a good quality (thick boards, good components, laid out well) 6v6 2204 and really make some money, by selling en masse.
    Wow.
    I’m not talking about the op at all, anymore. Haha! Sorry.
    I love comparisons of different amps, partly because you get ideas of what amps would work well in an ABY setup.
     
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  3. Dick Banks

    Dick Banks Senior Member

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    All of those amps kill!
    You just need a Vox AC15 or AC30 to round-out the field!
     
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  4. christophervolume

    christophervolume Senior Member

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    i just got the fudge brownie princeton a few weeks back. it's fantastic! i have the tweed blues jr model with the upgraded speaker. while a good workhorse amp, i've gigged it many a times, the princeton smokes it. have fun!

    here's mine -

    [​IMG]

     
  5. Pop1655

    Pop1655 Premium Member

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    What a great clip!!!!!
    :applause::applause::applause:
     
  6. christophervolume

    christophervolume Senior Member

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    hey, thanks! just a sloppy one-taker. i've been really getting into old school travis picking stuff.
     
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  7. Gridlock

    Gridlock Senior Member

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    Great sounding amp.
     
  8. Big John

    Big John banned, mentally V.I.P. Member

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    Update...my buddy has decided to swap out the output transformer for a Deluxe Reverb transformer. His goal is to get the same exact tone but with more volume. Personally, I think he's nuts to do such a drastic mod so soon after buying it. Will report back to thread after I play/hear the amp after surgery.
     
  9. M@nChild

    M@nChild Senior Member

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  10. christophervolume

    christophervolume Senior Member

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  11. afjungemann

    afjungemann Senior Member

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    Yes! I love the tweed on mine. Great look for a great sound.

    I ended up picking up one of the 10” Jensen models from a couple years ago as I was nervous about messing with the recipe by throwing in a 12” speaker.

    Would love to AB the speakers but regardless, this amp brings out a whole new side to my playing. I have it set up by my couch so I grab my 355 and make my own scores for shows I am watching.
     
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  12. Big John

    Big John banned, mentally V.I.P. Member

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    Another update: now the guy is thinking about getting a 2x10 combo shell from Mojotone for a chassis transplant after the new output tranny gets put in. His reasoning is he's after the same end result that Victoria got with their Double Deluxe: same tone, twice the volume.

    This is kinda becoming the "more money than brains" thing...
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  13. christophervolume

    christophervolume Senior Member

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    yeah, does he want a princeton or not??..
     
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  14. Marshall & Moonshine

    Marshall & Moonshine Senior Member

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    Seems like he wants a 2x10 Princeton with an oversized OT.
    I do too, actually, although I’ll probably just use a normal spec OT.
     
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  15. Big John

    Big John banned, mentally V.I.P. Member

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    Finally got to play the amp last night with the new transformer. It sounded good. It does seem to have more headroom before the power tubes start crapping the bed. I was really impressed with the tone with humbuckers. Creamy & dreamy. I told him to just stop at this point before the amp changes too much more.
     
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  16. Leña_Costoso

    Leña_Costoso Senior Member

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    Second item first. The Princeton Reverb cabinet is only 19-3/4 inches outside dimensions. You'd have to go "tall" to get 2x10. Or... come up with some sort of goofy looking filler between the chassis and ends of the cabinet if you wanted "wider".

    You buddy needs to consider an extension cabinet, a nice CLOSED BACK one, with another 10 or 12 in it, or even a pair of 10's or 12's so long as they were 8 ohms total impedance (ie, 2x16ohm in parallel, or 2x4 ohm in series). Getting some really great and efficient 10's or 12's in an extension cabinet will add all new life to a Princeton Reverb.

    Consider this: A "doubling" of power (watts) will give you 3dB of extra loud. Hello? Can we get an extra 3dB with better speakers? Maybe! Not sure what speakers are in there, but, if they're 96dB sensitivity and you go to 99dB sensitivity... you got your loud. The wattage will buy you headroom though. Speakers of any sort will change the tone, and flavor of the amp though.

    And now for the biggie... changing the output transformer will not give him one watt more. It will not give him one dB more, and will not give him any sort of additional headroom. Period. The power transformer is providing the source, regulated by the 6V6 pair. The output transformer is only converting the impedance of the 6V6 output to match the speakers. You're going from high voltage low current, to low voltage high current with the output transformer. So long as it has wire gauge enough, and iron enough to make the job happen for those 6V6's, its good enough and any extra is overkill. It could change the tone to some degree, depending on the transformer, and may make it better, worse, or the same.

    However... if he finds a way to bugger in a Deluxe Reverb transformer, and a Deluxe Reverb output transformer, and a choke, and better filtration and a long tail pair phase inverter... he'd have a one channel Deluxe Reverb. Never say never, but just buy the Deluxe Reverb at that point, if you want more loud.
     
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  17. Big John

    Big John banned, mentally V.I.P. Member

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    That's one of things I told him before he put this thing on his tech's bench: try a more sensitive speaker first. Totally agree with you...he should've just bought a Deluxe. The amp still sounds cool, still looks cool...but at what cost?
     
  18. Leña_Costoso

    Leña_Costoso Senior Member

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    If the "tech" takes on the OT job as described, he's an unscrupulous puke of a human being, or not worth his weight in solder fumes as a tech. Its like adding a bigger fuel tank to make your truck go faster.
     
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  19. Marshall & Moonshine

    Marshall & Moonshine Senior Member

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    I thought oversizng the OT can extend bass response on an amp with farty bass, which the PR kinda does. More to do with saturation than wattage. I used Allen’s TO11 in my 5f2-a build, and it’s amazingly full sounding, even at pretty respectable volumes. It’s a 2x10, and since I built the cab, I decided to go with a diagonal 2x10 and it definitely punches above its weight class.
    Since I built it with all the modifications, it can’t really say what difference each one makes, individually. What I do know, is that while it’s a far cry from a 1x8 or 1x10 combo, it’s fantastic. It probably shares the volume of a 5e3, but with quite a different circuit and layout, I’m sure it’s very different.
     
  20. Leña_Costoso

    Leña_Costoso Senior Member

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    The PR has 70ma available on the B+. Thats all folks! The DR OT may hold up a wee bit better but for better low end Id look at adding a little more filtration, reducing the PI input cap value a wee bit, bias sort of coldish.....and a speaker thats thumpy.

    (edit in)

    When you look at stock amps, the one thing you'll always notice is as the power (available) goes up, the low end gets solid, massive even. You can notice this even when comparing, say, a Deluxe Reverb to a Super Reverb, and then to a Twin Reverb. You just get a big huge solid low end as the power goes up.

    The OP was talking about swapping the output transformer to get "louder". Not gonna happen. Will it improve the low end....I wince a bit. The Princeton Reverb's power supply is just a shade above pathetic. I mean it does it's job for the intended purpose, but that's the best you can say. Its the same transformer as a Champ.

    There are times when "larger iron" will do the job better on the low end. One example I can think of is the blackface Bassman OT stuck into the blackface Bandmaster. That was at least "sort of" noticable. I really wonder if you'll improve the low end on a PR with the DR output transformer.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
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