FAQ: Tenons

Discussion in 'Norlin Years' started by dwagar, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. dwagar

    dwagar V.I.P. Member

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    Trans in '74, Short started in '75, as did Nashville production. Both tenons are seen in '75, I don't think I've ever seen a Nashville made LP with a Trans though.
     
  2. dwagar

    dwagar V.I.P. Member

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    I can't tell from that pic. Is there something growing in there?
     
  3. ILOVLP'S

    ILOVLP'S Member

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    my 74 custom.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. moreles

    moreles Senior Member

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    Interesting thread. Gibson is a maddening company, so willing year after year to basically put together about 90% of the material and work necessary to make a consistent, great guitar, and then resorting to inexcusable shortcuts to save/make a few bucks more profit while com,promising the integrity of their guitars. Any woodworker, furniture makers included, knows that the integrity of the joint is mechanically important, and though it's quite possible to get a good sounding guitar with a crap short tenon, most of the time, its the long tenon that reliably gives the classic tone. Why? Because that's how it freaking works. The shorter tenons make it possible to assemble the guitar with a far less rigid joint with far less contact area. The rocker type short tenon joints are a joke -- their fit is even less precise and flush than what a really good bolt-on designer comes up with these days. I know that most people don't want to hear this, think I'm an idiot, and that this doesn't matter, but the kind of surface contact, distribution of tension, and even the glue through which energy (vibrations) will travel all makes a difference, which is why an old Martin acoustic with a dovetail neck held by contact and hide glue sounds great, why a beautifully fit Collings acoustinc with a bolted neck sounds great, and why Norlin and current issue Les Pauls with easy-tolerance short tenons generally don't have the same sound as those made better with longer tenons. Yes, there are exceptions. that's why they are called exceptions. In a Les Paul, everything comes together at the neck joint.
     
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  5. rumblebox

    rumblebox Senior Member

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  6. Toxicpizza72

    Toxicpizza72 Senior Member

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    A very informative thread this one,really good,I have always wondered about the difference between the different tenons,thanx guys ! :)
     
  7. The real Big Al

    The real Big Al Member

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    In my experience ALL Kalamazoo Lesters have the modified tenon. IMO it has all the stability and tone enhancement of the earlier longer tenon. I have a 78 Kalamazoo flame top LP Standard with one. Also ABR's came on the Kalamazoo's, Nashville's on... wait for it...Nashvilles. Again my 78 has an ABR bridge. So if you see an ABR on a 70's Lester odds are it was made in Kalamazoo and has a modified tenon.

    Nashville is the home of the rocker short tenon as well as the Nashville bridge. If you see a Nashville bridge on a 70's Les Paul odds are that it was made in Nashville with a short rocker tenon.

    80's ??? not so sure but I would guess it still holds true until Kalamazoo closed.
    All things being equal, I'd rather have the Kalamazoo made ones.
     
  8. Elrathia

    Elrathia Senior Member

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    I have a 75 Custom that might (emphasis on might) fly against that logic. 6 digit SN, trans tenon, narrow binding in cutaway, and a Nashville. But, here is the possible explanation. When i got the guitar, it had been converted to a (sob) Kahler and the Nashville studs might have been installed with that bit of butchery. I dont know anything about Kahlers so couldnt say for sure that it would have been necessary for that, but the studs absolutely fit the Nashville bridge it is equipped with now.
     
  9. Jimmi

    Jimmi Senior Member

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    Wonder if the Kalamazoo theory holds for the heritages? Hmmm.
     
  10. loscoyotestodd

    loscoyotestodd Junior Member

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    Some guy had a '58 Black Beauty and said it sounded like crap??
     
  11. Roberto777

    Roberto777 Junior Member

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    So...if I understood well this one should be the short tenon,right?
    I am asking because I am maybe buying this LP with maple neck from 1976.
    I am not going the change my mind whatever this tenon is because I will try it first
    and if I like the sound I dont care about long or short tenon.
    Whould chalenge anybody blind folded to try these different tenon guitars to see if these experts would recognize the difference ;)
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Progrocker111

    Progrocker111 Senior Member

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    Its very interesting, cause its transitional tenon, which mostly disappeared in mid 1975. :)
     
  13. Jimmi

    Jimmi Senior Member

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    Some think there were more transitions made in Kalamazoo after 75.
     
  14. Progrocker111

    Progrocker111 Senior Member

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    Yes, there were some, but not in the whole post 75 Kalamazoo production.
     
  15. dwagar

    dwagar V.I.P. Member

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    :hmm:

    that's a good pic to have in this thread, that's the 2nd '76 I've seen with a trans tenon.

    is it unfinished? is it common for the filler strip to show like that?
     
  16. Roberto777

    Roberto777 Junior Member

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    So that is a transition tenon...ok....its a natural LPC with a 3 pieces maple neck and a maple fretboard,with a pancaked body.Its my first Gibson...I am far from being an expert about Gibson guitars....they where always out of my rich,financial possibilities....and I always gravitated toward stratocasters....but I had a chance to get this one ...so I grabbed it after I felt in love with it and all I can say its my 3rd " blond" at home,second being a Kramer DMZ3000 and the first one ...my wife ;)
    [​IMG]
     
  17. PDM1968

    PDM1968 Senior Member

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    Is this a long tenon in my 1970-72 LP Standard?

    [​IMG]
     
  18. rumblebox

    rumblebox Senior Member

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    That's a trans tenon.
     
  19. acstorfer

    acstorfer Senior Member

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    Interesting. I know year wise it has to be, but I didn't think trans tenons had that bottom lip. I was thinking it was a one off type thing.

    I've seen the pic of the tenons from a side shot. I'd love to see them all from the above example's angle.
     
  20. Progrocker111

    Progrocker111 Senior Member

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    Exactly, this is not the classical transitional 69-early 75 type of tenon. That bottom lip is extra here, it is very much like some shortened long tenon type. These early Norlins are still full of mysteries. :hmm:
     
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