es rim glue

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by Flyin Z, Sep 16, 2017.

  1. Flyin Z

    Flyin Z Member

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    I was going to use titebond original to laminate the 3- ply maple rims of about .050" thick each. I thought about using hide glue but afraid it will harden up before I get everything clamped. Perhaps fish glue will work. This is my first attempt. Any advice?
     
  2. Freddy G

    Freddy G V.I.P. Member

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    titebond.....without question
     
  3. Open_Book

    Open_Book Senior Member

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    Cascamite is a very cheap UF glue and is used by some for such lamination applications as the open time is much longer. It dries rock hard like Hide glue, too. Its something else worth considering.
     
  4. moreles

    moreles Senior Member

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    With experience, any of those glues would work, but the safest and most reliable for those of us who do not build all the time and who do not have a personal preference would be Titebond, as Freddy says. I can't think of any downside to using it in this case, and it should work really well. Enjoy your build!
     
  5. Open_Book

    Open_Book Senior Member

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    Nothing unsafe or unreliable about cascamite and its a boon for someone without experience because of its longer open time.
     
  6. Freddy G

    Freddy G V.I.P. Member

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    I have to agree. I only mentioned titebond only because it's the easiest to use and procure.
     
  7. Open_Book

    Open_Book Senior Member

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    I'm not against Titebond Freddy. Its just the OP mentioned using Hide Glue (you know that old story for the tonez...) and its open time. Cascamite is like the Fishglue (only better) of Hide glue with its open time when it comes to newbies and clamping.
     
  8. Flyin Z

    Flyin Z Member

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    What is this polyeurethan glue that I hear about? is it like two part epoxy?
     
  9. The Ballzz

    The Ballzz Senior Member

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  10. Joth

    Joth Senior Member

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    How are you shaping the rims and clamping them to their final form? Will their shape after laminating be slightly reworked and rebent when put into the form when glued to the centre block?

    Last year I did a complete rebuild on a 62 ES345 that completely fell apart http://www.mylespaul.com/threads/es345-overambitious-restoration.368366/ and I spent some time looking at the original glues to see what failed and what survived:
    a) the top and back plates were in perfect laminated condition and showed no deterioration of the glues anywhere, I am assuming this was the more moistureproof PF glue
    b) the side rim lamination glue totally failed and that's the first sign that the guitar was in trouble, the sides just peeled away from itself
    c) the side to top kerfing and centre core/spruce layer glues all seemed the same as the sides and all had dried out and powdered, these seemed to be the UF glue
    d) the fretboard to neck joint, and the neck heel to body core joint were in perfect condition, and these were hide glue. The holly to headstock face was also perfect, and I believe I had reglued the headstock ears early on, so that was probably UF.

    My recommendation would be to use the titebond1, because although the UF has a great long open time, I find it a bit brittle for the bending of it into its final form, the UF could crack up a bit within the laminations when doing this.

    In the rebuild of the 62, I used hide glue on the kerfing to side rim joints, and hide glue again gluing the spruce into the top and back plates (basically I tried to use hide glue as much as possible) then used UF to glue the top and back onto the body and rims, because you really need the long open time for that process, do not try to use titebond or hide glue for that, it will skin over too early.

    For the side rim cutaway joints to join the body core, you MUST (or really should) use the UF there, as you really would not want that joint to loosen if you ever applied heat and moisture to the nearby neck heel joint if you wanted to remove the neck later on.
     
  11. Flyin Z

    Flyin Z Member

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    I am pre- bending the plies and then clamping them into a form lined with cork. I think i am going with the unibond 800. Going to do one set with maple and one set with walnut.
     
  12. Skyjerk

    Skyjerk Meatbomb Silver Supporter

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    I never clamp newbies. They holler too much
     
  13. Open_Book

    Open_Book Senior Member

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    Not in my dungeon... /cue Pulp Fiction theme
     
  14. Bill Hicklin

    Bill Hicklin Senior Member

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    That's what the ball gag is for.
     
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  15. the great waldo

    the great waldo Senior Member

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    Titebond extend would be good in this situation although cascamite is good because of it's long set up time + it's waterproof and rock hard. I have heard that there can be storage problems with cascamite powder where it has a limited shelf life, maybe someone who's has had any problems with it would like to chirp in.
    Cheers
    Andrew
     
  16. Open_Book

    Open_Book Senior Member

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    When it comes to shelf-life Cascamite is no different to any other glue as long as you follow the manufacturers storage instructions. Its not rocket science. The internet has a bunch of people whining about Titebond going off.
     

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