End of Makeovers

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by Schofnsteen, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. THDNUT

    THDNUT Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,165
    Likes Received:
    18,819
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012

    Because Rudi.

    People like mfolet and freebyrd 69 go through LP reissues like Gene Simmons went through groupies because they get tired of them. There is always a new pretty face to hop in bed with. :rofl:
     
    mfolet, Sct13 and LpCustom2007 like this.
  2. Truth011

    Truth011 Senior Member

    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    195
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2011
    Buying any reissue without a signature of a known artist is most probably a bad investment anyway.

    Everyone has a different reason for going the makeover route but for me it was about taking a good historic at a weight I like(8 to 8.5 lbs) and making it into MY interpretation of a really cool vintage burst. For one of my 2 HM's I waited 6 months for the right fret board(I like very dark strait grain); I like a certain vintage neck profile which I had both shaped to. On one I had a flat deck top carve where on the other I went with their standard top carve. It's funny how each guitar check's differently but that's the one thing you can't control with the process. Finally, choosing YOUR favorite top color and aging makes for a fun process. I have found that the guitars opened up a little after 6 mos. but really, it's all about the look, feel and playability of a broken in guitar. You either get it or you don't. YMMV :cheers:
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
    thinkgreen, alnico59 and freebyrd 69 like this.
  3. freebyrd 69

    freebyrd 69 Silver Supporter Premium Member

    Messages:
    8,361
    Likes Received:
    13,822
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2011
    I can't speak for Michael, but for me, it's not all about finding the perfect guitar. I love guitars in general. I find them to buy from multiple sources. Craigslist, Ebay, Reverb, MLP, LPF, Gear Page, etc.. I rarely lose any money on them, and I have owned and played virtually every CC, artist run, and R whatever model that there is to be had.

    I recently bought 2 guitars off of Ebay, but, "OFF" of Ebay, if you know what I mean. Paid $4100 for both. Got them, cleaned them up, oiled the fret board, changed the strings, and jammed with them for a few hours each. Sold them both in less than two weeks and netted $4807 after fees. One on Craigslist, one on Ebay. I have paid for most of my gear that way. Along the way, I find my "keepers". I have 2 guitars that will NEVER go anywhere. The rest may come and go.

    People's value of their time and money are subjective. Sports cars and high end watches are a complete waste of money and time to me, but not to many others. I have owned ONE guitar that I lost money on......an Ace Frehley triple pickup aged. I think I lost around 5 or $600 on that one. The rest......again, all of my gigging gear has been bought and paid for. I have had 3 guitars that I wish I wouldn't have sold.....well, 4 actually. The rest.....they come and go.
     
  4. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

    Messages:
    12,876
    Likes Received:
    19,007
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
  5. moreles

    moreles Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,284
    Likes Received:
    864
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2011
    "Reissue..." Yeah -- that's a bogus concept to begin with. Obviously, people can and should buy whatever pleases them, both in terms of actual construction and in terms of concept/fantasy/imitation psychological value. Gibson's happy to monetize any and all consumer wants, including the extensive non-musical, non-functional stuff. They're eager to cheapen one-standard products in order to make massively overpriced, more limited production items of decent quality appear better than they are. Gibson is the only company that can legally make branded imitations of other Gibsons, so they're the best in the world at that. (#! our of 1.) Anyone who wants to give me a $$$$ Gibson-copy-by-Gibson would be thanked, but I would never even consider paying top dollar for the "reissued, historic, collector's choice, etc." product lines. Well, maybe when their resale "value" (I really mean "price," which is even less) drops even more... I'm not being critical of anyone who buys whatever they like -- that's not my business! -- but I sure am critical of a corporation that has been unable to produce anything much that's new and valuable in the last 50 years and so is recycling its old standard products as boutique items.
     
    endial likes this.
  6. BDW60

    BDW60 Senior Member

    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    289
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Overpriced? Sure. But people buy historics in all their iterations because they are the best Gibson Les Pauls available. And people still want Gibson Les Pauls. And Gibson, despite awful management, is a business with the intention, like all other businesses, to make money. The quaint notion that they should have never "boutiqued" something that was once a standard offering is ridiculous. And it's not really Gibson's fault they can't come up with successful new products. The consumer base that buys Gibsons pretty much hates every new idea they have -- good or bad.
     
  7. moreles

    moreles Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,284
    Likes Received:
    864
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2011
    "Overpriced...sure" and "the quaint notion that they should have never 'boutiqued' something that was once a standard is ridiculous." Your own statement shows the irrationality of your position. Has PRS allowed their standard build quality to decline in order to sell more limited editions? No. Yes, I understand capitalism. But I also buy stuff in stores, you know, for money? Just because Gibson has a business plan, which they are obviously free to have, doesn't mean it is the only or best one possible, or works best for their buyers, or even that it is working for Gibson! But sure, if you are happy with whatever they do, then good for you. Personally, I wish they were a better company, with a better business plan, and better value for money (though, like Martin, their cheap models are more competitive.)
     
  8. Crotch

    Crotch Delete My Account Entirely Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member

    Messages:
    9,290
    Likes Received:
    10,058
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    I'm still waiting for the "good idea" :rofl:
     
  9. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Senior Member

    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    164
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    When did they decrease build quality? Just because they're offering something more specialized doesn't mean they're making the regular ones worse. Unless you're comparing modern Historics to actual 1959s, which would be ridiculous because that was over 50 years ago and they were a much smaller company then.
     
    Truth011 likes this.
  10. Sct13

    Sct13 Gold Supporter Premium Member

    Messages:
    16,444
    Likes Received:
    18,829
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    I don't think the LP, Strat, or telecaster can be exceeded, the rest is all interesting body shapes or some new fangled electronic device....The basics are in the neck feel and the scale length and pick up arrangement. The last big advance was the Fan Frets that "fix" the note inaccuracies that traditional fretting poses. So there is no real "new horizon" for Gibson to conquer...

    But what the hell do I know?

    I should mention different string arrangements as another innovation, but the basics are still similar or the same.

    the Les Paul is about the beauty of the wood and its womanly shape, and the connection it can make (as an instrument) to a player. That's why they still sell. They are made over because buying into an expensive used guitar, (because the seller Precedes the sale with the word "vintage") and if its a desirable piece....cha-ching....$ Is ridiculous to me....

    I would much rather get exactly what I want for my money....

    And this is where Gibson fails....they were just catching on to the market demands in 2013 or 14 with the MTM's ...
    in the past, you got what you got.

    Its here that Gibson could have excelled, catering to people who knew exactly what they wanted. And not just celebrities who just happen to be lucky enough to score a great band and a record deal....

    I'm in a band now who think my dabbling in Les Paul's and HM's and MTM's is completely ridiculous ....its outside of their understanding, a guitar to them is JUST a tool, nothing more. Play it till it breaks and get another one...Or buy ONE forever...

    Life is too short for that kind of short sightedness. You live ONCE, if your lucky you get old before you die (depending on how you look at it)

    Right now my TIME is running out...I'm 53, soon to be 54....I play in a band to stay youthful and relevant? or because I simply love music?

    And If I'm going to play...its going to be the best I can afford, .....before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.
     
    endial, Crotch, mudface and 9 others like this.
  11. tonybony

    tonybony Senior Member

    Messages:
    355
    Likes Received:
    340
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    One of the best posts that I have ever read here.
     
    landguitar and Sct13 like this.
  12. mfolet

    mfolet Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,195
    Likes Received:
    10,100
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    My left hand is the final deciding factor in what is a keeper.That is my bottom line.
     
    Deadletteroffice and Sct13 like this.
  13. landguitar

    landguitar Double Platinum Supporter

    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    249
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Well said, overall. This is an interesting thread because it is many of the more "generic" threads on MLP in a nutshell. I "hang out" here because I LOVE the guitars. I have other guitars besides Les Pauls, some very nice ones, and I play almost all of them in sort of a rotation based on the need for the "tool" in the song(s). But nothing makes me feel the way playing my LP's does. While it's always fun and interesting to hear the diverse opinions, I often wonder why folks that hate Gibson participate on a Gibson devoted forum. I understand the rationales, in general, but to me, you are here because you have a passion for these guitars. Does that mean any of us love everything about every guitar Gibson has made? Nope. I've played my share of duds too and it's very disappointing. But while Paul Reed Smith wants to make every guitar playable and consistently equal - and my experience is that they achieve that, but I haven't played one of his that is outstanding, either - Gibson still looks to make their guitars "special" for everyone. Maybe a subtle difference and also a QC issue, but that's another discussion.

    While I love the work that HM does, my hesitation is the same as others have expressed here - if I buy a perfectly good LP, what might happen to it at HM? If I buy an average LP that I really don't bond with, will HM magically change that? I am dubious enough to not pull that trigger. My worst LP was a 2014 '58 RI that I got from Wildwood that I just could not like - not their fault - and I ended up trading it back to them for one I really do like, and they were fair about it. I changed pickups and pots, didn't help, considered sending to HM, but had that same concern - I don't like the guitar now, how would that change if I get it makeover?
    I would consider one like has been posted here that is on the WW site, a gorgeous LP, but that seems really expensive to me for a "regular" LP... AND THAT is probably another thread as well!
     
  14. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    180
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    I expect that HM to hang out at WW for a while at that price and then be reduced to move along.

    Makeovers, unless done by DJ, seem to be a hard sell. DJs seem to sell pretty quickly tho. I can understand why as I prefer the work DJ did w/HM far more than anything that I've seen since.

    My take on this is that for resale value it really matters who did the makeover. ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2017
  15. Sct13

    Sct13 Gold Supporter Premium Member

    Messages:
    16,444
    Likes Received:
    18,829
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011

    The guitar that you HM'd if your were to decide to do so would be a "different" guitar...It does not mean it perfects it for you....it certainly is a roll of the dice as subjectivity is the main deciding variable.

    On the better side of that however....the feel of the Brazilian boards on both of mine were exceptional, almost polished in a way....Add to the fretwork and they really do become dream machines. the nut work is excellent as well.....no-one ever mentions that, but its impressive. The finish is certainly different....think a candied apple that's brittle....if that makes any sense.....

    There are many little differences that are noticeable, visually works into playability, because the binding is larger, you can feel this on the neck.

    Also the guitar came back 4 oz. lighter....So its really is different, not the same, and may not be "Better" for you..... That's my take....I love mine....

    But the coolest thing is I called the shots on 95% of its transformation....that was worth it. It really IS My guitar...
     
  16. jlb32

    jlb32 Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,830
    Likes Received:
    3,718
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Personally I can go out and find any Gibson model, regardless of the price, that is excellently built. Overall is Gibson QC worse than PRS? Maybe, but I personally have no issues with any Gibson I have ever bought, even many bought sight unseen online. Maybe I'm just lucky.
     
  17. moreles

    moreles Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,284
    Likes Received:
    864
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2011
    With HM you're in the same boat as with any custom order, or when you order anything online -- you're buying on verbal spec rather than on the basis of the object in hand. So it becomes a matter of you knowing darned well what you want and being able to describe it in firm enough terms so the modder/builder/supplier can deliver what you want -- if they are in fact capable of doing this. Some buyers and suppliers appear to be quite good at arriving at a good understanding, and things work out OK, but as you can tell from any thread here, there's a lot of sloppy use of language, some ignorance, etc. that can quickly lead to significant misconnections. It's simply a difficult thing to do some things verbally. I do not own a HM, but based on lots of reports, they seem to be successful at fulfilling their clients' desires.
     
    endial likes this.
  18. Sct13

    Sct13 Gold Supporter Premium Member

    Messages:
    16,444
    Likes Received:
    18,829
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Kim had a specific way he took the order, it allowed for clear and concise information to be exchanged concerning the requirements. There was an online form that specified the neck carve...(I dont know if its still employed) but the point gets across. (the neck carve was the most important item for me)

    They did however paint it too dark the first go around ..... They striped it back and reshot it, and contacted me during the shoot so they could get it right, and did they ever. He even called me back to ask about a stinger, because I hadn't thought of it ....glad he did.

    All in all it was a great second experience, and I will do one again...soon I hope
     
  19. jlb32

    jlb32 Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,830
    Likes Received:
    3,718
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    I've sent HM emails on 2 different occasions in the last 6 months. Both were about a certain finish and aging I was inquiring about. I did not get a reply either time. No thanks.
     
  20. FennRx

    FennRx Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,268
    Likes Received:
    27,656
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2008
    Don’t worry, the white knights will be along shortly to explain why this is your fault

    :laugh2:
     

Share This Page