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Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by Schofnsteen, Nov 13, 2017.
First World Problem......
It because the mystique of the aged or "used" guitar is soooo over rated.....my reasons are somewhat vain....but on the end of all that....I prefer an artificial aged guitar because I am a player and a rough one at that....so an aged guitar can take a beating and no one will ever know a complete klutz plays it....(you should see my 93 strat bought new) refretted a few times....in fact its in semi retirement till I find the right neck for it...
Also my other problem is if its shiny and perfect....I'm going to be OCD about keeping it that way....no way I'm owning a $4.5k glass case guitar....just not happening, it will be abused....gently.
The cost of an HM can be padded slightly by getting a cheaper used Historic.
To answer your question about Why historics....? They are built differently than a standard or Traditional....there is no point to HM ing these....but you certainly could if you were so inclined.
I have two In house Gibson aged LP's Very nice but come no where near the HM's level of detail. I was looking at a 59 burst yesterday in fact and the HM's are pretty close....but not spot on....
Why a sellout? The project was started in the Gembar/Wilson ear, I believe (read here or on the otter forum). People wanna get closer to the real thing. Why shouldn‘t Gibson Custom do BRW?
I have nothing but love for the Braz boards. The “sellout” is Henry’s obvious BS stance on forest preservation and vow to never use Brazilian and other endangered species again. Money talks, and his morals obviously have a price.
I've always thought the make overs type of thing was a bit silly. I buy guitars to play, not stare at (although I do sometimes). I don't buy guitars that I don't love. What would the point in that be?
All that said, to be fair about a week ago I played a HM Les Paul and I have to say it looked, felt, and played fantastic. Now did it look, feel, and play more fantastic than a great example from the Gibson Custom Shop? Not really. But it was a great guitar. It's pretty impossible to make a judgement based on one nice guitar. The person who's guitar it was is a famous player. All of you know his name. I would have to guess it was a nice guitar before HM did it. I suspect he doesn't buy turds. I know for a fact that he did it out of curiosity. I also know for a fact that the guitar is now for sale. Why? I do not know.
I have considered sending my Goldtop simply out of curiosity. I am interested in a really nice fret board. I do like the VOS type finish, but I don't like relics much. So that's what holds me back.
Well.....spill it! Whose is it?
The suspense is killing freebyrd.
I really don't care who this famous guitarist is.
I'm pretty sure you can do a NOS type of makeover. I don't think aging is required.
EDIT: Although, if you like the VOS haze that's on those from the Custom Shop, it won't have that.
Yep, I love the stories behind a guitar.
Looks like price is an issue.
What price point would make someone that was on the fence pull the trigger for a LP Makeover? What would a reasonable price be?
- Remove parts
- Strip old finish
- Wood prep and grain fill
- Spray burst color of choice
- Spray aged clear
- Restamp SN
- Wet-sand and buff
- Distress finish
- Weather check
- Silkscreen logo
- Reassemble parts
Shipping included in price? Y/N
How about just a Braz fret board swap? No finishing, no aging, no new serial number. Just steam the old board off replace with Braz and touch up the clear along the neck edge.
For me with the '13 and up Historics using a proper truss rod and hide glue neck set the board is all that I'd want to consider changing.
Totally irrelevant for me as I live in UK.
But for me. If something on my guitar wasn't right for me or something needed replacing or damaged then having it sorted would be a possability.
But I think the biggest hold up on something like this. I assume most are like me. When I got my l.p. it was the dream guitar and it took all of my financial ability to afford it. So being at my upper limit I have my perfect guitar. Remembering my guitar playing is purey recreational. So from my stand point I have to justify any more out lay on what is necessary and what is nice to have.
I feel you on that one. The Reissues are expensive. One could always look for a cheap used Gibson USA / non-reissue beater guitar and have it sent out for a makeover. I do all Les Paul guitars, not just Historics. So, in theory, you could have all the appointments of a historic for less then the price of a stock historic.
Just one of many options.
Nope, he wont do it....
He has a standard package....the Refin is required, the nitro formulations are different ....
One thing that keeps me from HM is the menu. I have to buy things that I don't care about necessarily to get the few things that I would care about. I would do my fretboard and nitro inlays for sure. But I have to do a complete renovation on the guitar to get that with HM. It's like wanting new hardwoods but you have to renovate your kitchen and bathrooms as well to get the new floors.
I realize HM won't do it so I've been looking elsewhere. I'm probably not a target customer for HM anyway. I pretty much do a good job of 'relicing' all by myself. As in "I can't believe I just did that..."
I do have a keeper '14 R9 that I'd like a better board on tho. The factory board on that guitar has a coarse feel that'll take some time to smooth over. That board has absolutely none of that waxy goodness of a good Braz or Mad board. If I found a replacement board like the black & waxy Mad board on my '04 CR6 I'd pony up for a Mad board replacement right now.
I've priced a board swap through a couple reputable shops. Not as pricey as a makeover but it ain't cheap either. I'll post a thread if/when I decide to move forward.
I have had a few makeovers, and I love the aging done by all the guys we know to be good at it.
But.....my DJ makeover ended up costing 7500 dollars when I was finished. I sold it for 5900.
So the real question is about value, because at the end of the day the aging is fake, a better fake will cost you more, but maybe it is worth it to you. In my case, it was not. I think the Custom Shop is doing a decent job, not as good as the aftermarket guys, but decent.
Case in point, I have three guitars that were aged by the custom shop. Prices were 4200, 4400, and 4800.
These guitars will probably hold their value fairly close to what I paid, and one has appreciated quite a bit already.
At the end of the day the artificial aging is still artificial, no one except the anally retentive brethren, really will notice or care.
I had a friend of my wife's visit, and she saw a rack of aged guitars sitting across the room. She asked me "do you fix them up and resell them" .....
Don't think for a minute that refinishing that guitar in nitro, with all the special voodoo, is going to open it up, and a miraculous tonal improvement is going to take place, that is pure bull. I have a guitar that was sprayed in poly from 74, and painted over with a black paint using a brush, and it sounds better than most any other guitar I have ever played. Refins are just that, new fresh paint, and in this case dinged up and distressed.
Brazilian boards are popular because they are more scarce now than ever before, we always want what we cant have, there is no tonal or feel benefit that warrants their price. I would leave the Brazilian blanks to restore vintage guitars.
Like Vic said earlier, I am a klutz as well. I will never own a new shiny guitar, because I am going to doink it sooner than later, and it drives me nuts. But I love the look, and feel of an aged guitar, but the way I piss through gear, it is an exercise in losing money. Especially now when the market is as soft as ever.
If you have oodles of discretionary income then have at it, if your keeping the guitar forever then give it a whirl. But no matter which way you slice it fake aging is still fake, just done more to your liking for a price.
Thats the one downfall of the process. You'll never get anywhere close to what you put into it. Cause you are basically having a makeover to make the guitar more "yours". Everyone's tastes are different. So unless you find that one perfect guy you're bound to lose around 2K, especially if you are replacing all or many of the parts along with it. So the moral is, make sure you know its the one before you do the process.
This is for sure a huge consideration. I rarely, if ever by a guitar with the intension of selling it. But inevitably something perceived as an "upgrade" comes down the pipe every 2-3 years and I consider selling one that I have to get another that I am more in love with at that time. Now with normal CS guitars providing I have got what I felt was a fair price on them I can figure loosing a reasonable, digestible percentage if I sell. Getting into these HM guitars, it will never happen. Early this year I came into a Murphy relic Goldtop True Vintage that retails for nearly 10k for like $4100. It was a brand new guitar. Although it was a beautiful guitar, it just wasn't me so I sold it. I barely made a profit on even that. I think I sold it for like $4800 or something. And that was unmolested. Anyways, all of this is well known stuff. I still might at some point take a plunge on a really nice fretboard for my Goldtop. But it will have to be somewhere I don't have to renovate the entire guitar to do so.
What I don't understand is why do a Makeover & then sell it shortly after?
Makeover a keeper & be done with it.
Same with Replicas or Historics, get the one you want & keep it.
This continuous buying & flipping to find the perfect Guitar is a waste of time & money.
The Guitar won't do it for you, your fingers will.
My 2c FWIW.