Like I said, No need to have posted that because I fully understand everyones feelings on the subject. That is exactly what I meant. You are correct the roosters would kill one another regardless of man being involved or not. I know they are bred intentionally to not quit but beyond that it is 100% natural. The bulldogs are Game.. that cannot be trained or beaten or abused into an animal. they are born with it..... IF the fighting was forced ( either dogs or roosters) I would agree with everything you said. I know that the rules of both are set up to see which animal will not quit. That requires the animal being given every opportunity TO quit at any time. Again never seen a dog fight.. probably would not be my cup of tea. I do not see cruelty in the fight itself. I know in the roosters what I considered to be cruel was not having a rooster perfectly healthy and expecting it to fight for its life. Half doing their care all year because you are too lazy to feed and water regularly and then pitting him against an opponent that HAS had excellent care its entire life..... ONCE again I am not attempting to convert anyone to think as I do... just having a discussion.......BTW if all I knew about the dogs and the roosters was what I saw on TV. I would feel the same way all of you guys do also.