CS-336 Clone, Scratch Build.

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by johnP-90, Jun 22, 2016.

  1. johnP-90

    johnP-90 Senior Member

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    Hi again Folks!

    At last got around to cutting my last curly maple cap and braz mahogany board after weeks of head scratching and template making. I got the plan some weeks ago from Jamie at GPU (guitar plans unlimited) and he does a nice 336 clone.
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    Trouble is after making the card master I realised the F holes where to high up the body and shaped a tad "clone". Managed to obtain a better F hole from a 335 plan and scaled it to 87% and fitted perfect.

    I had to move the F holes and control drillings back so the top of F hole in line oe level with with front of bridge pickup, if that makes sense.

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    The top plate of bookmatched curly maple has come in a 10mm or 3/8" planed thickness so the plan is a shallow carve. I re-drew the contours from another plan, wrong shape and corrected them onto my drawing, cut them out and glued to MDF board to make the top carve templates. The graduations/steps are going to be 1mm for this thin carve going from 10mm to 4mm, approx!:fingersx:


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    I finished these this morning and bandsawed the 10mm top plate to 1/8" oversize and drilled the master screw holes in the p/up cavities to locate the carve templates, and pretty much everything else.
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    Btw the top plate only just fits! It was the last bit of curly and just about fits this build, the binding will sort it out anyway, fingers xxx.

    Here shot for how the carve should go, I will cut a 2.5 degree neck plane and 1 degree pickup plane when the carve is done, in my "angle box".
    The steps I will carve out by hand with my mini-planes from the LP build a few years ago.

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    I plan to carve the back as well as the inside of the top plate, when happy with the top and hopefully no holes! I'll start on the carve tomorrow. Heres a shot of the lovely lightweight Braz MH body planed ready for jointing. So light its a shame to chamber it, almost. :)

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    More soon, cheers, John.
     
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  2. JohanHaellgren

    JohanHaellgren Senior Member

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    This is going to be great! Loved your starcaster build :)
    Im doing a 335 kit myself (see the"A Venture Into the semi-acoustic jungle"-thread)
     
  3. johnP-90

    johnP-90 Senior Member

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    Thanks Johan, I will check out the 335 thread with interest. I was going to order a 335 heritage "kit" from USA then found 336, ah hem as couldn't afford it!

    Its going to be carved inside and out hence starting with just the top plate, the motice I will cut flat in the body, flat for now at 1.5" and finish it of when I have glued the top plate, oh, and built a neck, ah hem.:naughty: Ve have a plan.

    Thanks, John
     
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  4. DrASATele

    DrASATele Member

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    Wow, looking good. Love the look of the top!
     
  5. Kenty1983

    Kenty1983 Senior Member

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    Will watch with great interest, not been on here for ages but like the look of this. My band mate had a 336 made and couldn't get on with it for some reason.
     
  6. emoney

    emoney Senior Member

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    These are a lot of fun to build, John. I've done two now and have plans for two more.
    I'm sure you've already worked your way through all the steps, but just in case;

    Carve the inside of the top/back first as they'll sit flush when flipped over still because of
    the gluing surface.

    I did my very first one backwards of this, at least on the bottom I think and learned the
    hard way.

    I'm sure you will, but post plenty of pics as you know we love reading through pictorials!
     
  7. Open_Book

    Open_Book Senior Member

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    I see you've settled in your new workshop, John. No stopping you now. :thumb:
     
  8. johnP-90

    johnP-90 Senior Member

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    Thanks Emoney, DrASATele, Kenty1983. Emoney, yer on the money here with this one, dead right mate. I wasn't sure how the contouring would come out as a tad "experimental" with the carve templates.
    I have marked the inside of the top using the chambering template and plan to flip it, and carve the inside bouts using the flat facets on the rough carved top. Once I know what depths to shoot for I'll do ther inside carves. I have built a long reach depth guage just for this, ah hem.

    Here how the carve templates went today:
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    Steps all cut in 1mm gradients.
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    20 minutes with the finger planes later.

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    I have screwed the plate to the "chambering" template which is clamped to my router table for a firm base.

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    These are the 2 scrub planes cutting very well, the big one in more a Cello plane and the smaller one with very shallow angle is brilliant for cross grain cutting. They remove wood at a fairly alarming pace when sharp. :shock:

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    Suprisingly they are still sharp from my Brtlett LP build years ago, the blades are strips of Sanvik scraper blades and take a wicked edge with waterstones. A flat planed hardwood hardwood board makes a brilliant polishing plate with solvol autosolve metal polish. 20 seconds on the edge and back and cutting nice again.

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    I will finish the top of tomorrow and glue the body halves, re-sawn to 1.5" on the bandsaw and edge joined already. The glue can set whilst sorting the top out.
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    I plan to cut the tenon center and flat as an index guide in the Mahogany body before carving the back, the neck plane and pickup plane I will cut when glued on, but before carving the back, then the rest of the cavities will be pin routed using a shimmed up back plate when glued and carved. I will leave the top rough carved with the flat facets to flip it over, for now. Join the dots later, ah hem. :)
    Thats the plan anyway!

    Cheers, John
     
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  9. valvetoneman

    valvetoneman Senior Member

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    I'll be watching this one John, I'm expecting a great looking guitar as usual

    Love the starcaster too oh and the blueshawk, the les Paul's not too shabby either.
     
  10. johnP-90

    johnP-90 Senior Member

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    Thanks "valvetoneman", about time I did another set neck build to do this Braz MH justice. (Same board I built the Blueshawk from and only enough left for 2 bodies including this one).
    Just of to Hockley to get a honduran MH neck blank to match better and anindian rosewood fingerboard. Should get 2 necks out of the 1/4 sawn neck blank fingers xxx.

    I have just glued the jointed 1.5" body halves together, reverse face as I found a nasty 1/4" deep chip on one of the faces, now on the outside! Luckily I jointed both faces on my table router before hand.:hmm:

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    Gawd this stuff cools quick!

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    I had all the clamps set up in advance, luckily.

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    Got some more wood carved in the meantime, I will only rough carve it for now, and finish it when the inside is carved and glued on, if that makes sense.

    I will need the neck pronto at this rate, to cut this weekend, luckily there is a major tonewood importer just up the road and just placed the order by phone. Now off to collect, more soon.

    Cheers, John
     
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  11. Spotcheck Billy

    Spotcheck Billy Senior Member

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    Things are progressing nicely!
     
  12. emoney

    emoney Senior Member

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    Ohhh, I'd love to have a "Tonewood" guy right down the street. As it is, it's a 2 hour "journey"
    since I'm just not a big fan of ordering stuff without first seeing it.

    Great progress, as anticipated. Figured out your neck angle yet? I'd only built a couple
    LP's prior and was a bit shocked when the neck-angle-calculator spit out the number, lol.
    Looking forward to the updates, of course!
     
  13. johnP-90

    johnP-90 Senior Member

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    Thanks SpotcheckBilly & Emoney, yeah coming on a pace. Neck angle will be around 3 degrees methinks. (2 degrees on the plan but using a thicker 3/8" top plate than the 1/4" on the plan, if that makes sense.
    Spent half the morning surrounded by huge boards of Honduran (alledgedly) Mahogany, Curly Maple in massive boards easily 3" thick, half a tree with bark still attached! :)

    I managed to get a lovely 3A 1/4 sawn neck blank, 770 x 75 x 90mm, massive and should get 2 1/2 necks out of it! (The 3rd one may have to be scarf jointed). Its a lovely match to the body blank, heres the end grain after planing off the wax.
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    Nicely on the 1/4.

    I only got to spend about 4 hours carving the inside of the plate, I have shimmed up the corners and flipped it over on the chambering template making a handy base to work with. Slow progress, but defined the start of the carve, about an 1/8" down so far, another 1/8" to go!:hmm:

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    Dont stray over the marker lines! The finger planes need sharpening, but so far no dust from random orbital sanders, but will use one to finish it of, as saves a ton of work when carve is defined me thinks.
    Cheers, John
     
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  14. waygorked

    waygorked Senior Member

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  15. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

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    Damn....................another Thread I need to check every few days. :laugh2:

    :wow: :wow: :wow: :thumb: :applause:..............Johns at it again. :wave:

    Cheers, Rudi
     
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  16. johnP-90

    johnP-90 Senior Member

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    Thanks waygorked, let me see if I can find it, ah hem as kind of interesting:

    http://www.upnorthstrings.com/es335body.pdf

    Rag 7890 Rudi, good to hear from you again, this time a carved top and proper old school timber and set neck. My last bit of curly maple coming along nicely but needs another day or 2. Had a slackarse weekend in London visiting my old pubs in walthamstowe, micro breweries, just about got back safely, ah ha. Crack on tomorrow with ze body blank and finish the top. This will be a Tonemonster, hopefully and 1/2 the weight of my LP, thats the plan anyway. :fingersx:
    Just ordered another board of curly maple from "curlymaple.com" arriving one day soon, just in case.
    Cheers John
     
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  17. johnP-90

    johnP-90 Senior Member

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    I managed to finish most of the top plate carve today, with the help of the Kidney shaped scraper to blend it all in. I wasn't sure how a shallow 3/8" plate of Curly would carve, 1/2" would be nice but the CS-336 is only 1 11/16" deep, a thicker carve would take it to over 2". :shock: But it would look nice.

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    I have carved a shallow re-curve of about 1mm abiut 3/4" in from the rim, using the kidney scraper, sods to sharpen properly but when sharp cut very quicly and smooth, no sanding dust either.
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    Leveling out the body blank and removing the bandsaw marks. The Record No.5 plane is cutting perfect and did not take long to get dead flat. Lovely stuff to plane as well this old Braz MH.
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    Chambering template attached after drilling the screw holes using the master template. I will drill most of the waste out tomorrow and machine it before bandsawing the body shape.
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    Some final sunlight shots of the top in the last of todays sunshine.:cool:
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    More soon when I have the body done and chambered, then start on the pickup and neck plane when the top plate is glued on.

    Cheers, John.
     
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  18. johnP-90

    johnP-90 Senior Member

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    Hi again, I have managed a bit of progress on the body at last, it has been cut to 1.5" to allow for a 3/8" carve on the back so it will end up 1/8" over 1 3/4" at 1 7/8 total thickness. It will look a lot thinner when the bindings are on. :thumb:

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    Chambering is 1" leaving 1/2 for carving on the bottom.

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    I robo sanded the rough endges before routing in 1/4" steps to avoid tear outs, steady as yer go!
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    Locating the Bartlett LP templates, I built my master template and drill holes to index around this later, here goes.

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    Post routs done to 1 1/8".

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    Now the main pickup rout down to 1", should be enough with the pickup rings as a shallow body ah hem.
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    1" it is.

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    Now I am going to rout a 1 1/8" wide channel to get the Pots and switch harness through, 1" deep. Sod all that F hole nonsence with mini-pots!

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    Should work, fingers xxx.

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    I have located thes exactly on the center line and will use a top bearing flush trim cutter thro' the top when its glued on to cut the same profile in the top plate. I plan to do the same on the neck mortice cut a 1/4" too shallow, and flat then finish it of in the "angle box" when I have cut the neck plane. (If that makes sense). :)

    Cheers, John.
     
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  19. johnP-90

    johnP-90 Senior Member

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    I forgot to add that it is built slightly back to front (arse about face) but been doing this chambering for years with hardwoods rather than alder or basswood etc. My first canoe carved Tele Thinline, mahogany with quilt maple cap confirmed this, however set neck is better, methinks! :naughty:
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    That was a few years ago but has become my standard tele ever since, with scatter hand wound late 50's p/u's from peter leonard at "Pickup Wizzard", Canada. Nice and got me thinking. 336 should sound a tad better with set neck and paf's. Fingers xxx

    Cheers John
     
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  20. johnP-90

    johnP-90 Senior Member

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    Apologies for un-required Telecaster nonsence, ah hem. :) Good progress today after deciding I am going to have to cut the neck mortice before I carve the back, so I have a flat surface to DS tape the routing template to the back.

    I am going to pin rout the F holes when I am happy with the top, but before glueing hence locating it with pins for now. Then pin rout the neck mortice with the template jacked up to 3 degrees.

    Drill pin/screw holes at the exact stud center locations, 3mm for now.

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    I have done the same to the routing templates so the neck pocket/mortice jig also locates in these drillings.
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    2.5 degrees to start with.
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    Quick double check of the plan shows I need 15mm minimum above the bridge position, 3 degrees it is!

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    A quick idiots check with 1/8" dowel and 1/4" fingerboard and straight edge. The wooden block sitting at the bridge position is exactly 15mm. With the body at 3 degrees this should produce a "Zero Angle", roughly.

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    This is the the revised plan, protractor set at 3 degrees to triple check.
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    Final position of the shim marked and DS taped to back of neck mortice template.
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    Angle box setup to 3 degrees.
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    The back pencil line is the end of the 3 degree neck plane, the pickup plane starts just behind the locating screws.
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    Jig ready, 3 degrees it is.
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    I started at 1 degree for the pickup plane but quickly discovered that was too shallow to join with the feather edge of the neck plane. 1.8 degrees bisects the 2 points perfectly. (Use the router cutter lowered as an index until the angle is correct and the 2 lines meet.

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    Done, not bad either. I had to keep the cutter line between the 2 cutaways as it rises slightly around the "horns".
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    Cleaning up the 2 faces with a very sharp No. 5 plane.
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    Now attacked in earnest with the random sander and P80 grit to bleand it all in.
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    Final shot indoors with better light angle.

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    Now for a beer and post all this, tomorrow the mortice and pin routing (oh heck!):hmm:

    Cheers, John
     
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