Craving clean tonez

Discussion in 'The Squawk Box' started by MichaelAndrew3435, Mar 1, 2018.

  1. mmd

    mmd Senior Member

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    Fender wattage - 50, 85, 100 - is there for headroom. Yeah, they are LOUD - but they also sound amazing at reasonable volumes. They are clean amps. The goal of a high wattage Fender isn't power tube crunch, it's to have an amp that stays CLEAN as the volume increases. It's how Leo designed them.

    Using an attenuator on a powerful Fender kind of defeats the purpose of why they were designed. It's sort of the opposite of Marshall or some of the others that you WANT to crank to get the goods. Sure, Deluxe Reverb on down have great drive when pushed. IMHO, a Twin sounds HORRIBLE when cranked. I have done it. It was pointless, lol. That amp was meant to be clean.

    You can get some GREAT crunch out of a Bassman. An attenuator would benefit that one, for sure. But, again, it sounds great clean at reasonable volumes. Bandmasters and Tremoluxes are cool too - they cam give some range when pushed, but also follow the standard Fender idea - "distortion is bad".

    To answer your question about the wattage of the Super Reverb and the "classic" Bassman 4x10 - 45 watts. The Blackface and early Silverface Bassman is 50 watts.
     
  2. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Senior Member

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    No, no 1x12s. The old Bassman 50 were heads in the Silverface line, and I think in BF as well. The combos were all 4x10, to my knowledge.

    Get a DRRI and call it a day.
     
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  3. howlermonkey

    howlermonkey Senior Member

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    Those roland cubes from the 80s overachieved in a huge way.
     
  4. chupe442

    chupe442 Confused as ever..... Premium Member

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    I have a 5F2a that I built (w/2x10 cab) and a Hot Rod III (new caps). Every so often a guy needs to have either of these two in order to walk away from the high gain world and reset..
     
  5. LeftyF2003

    LeftyF2003 Senior Member

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    Nice amp. The problem with the old ones is that you need to have someone go over the entire amp as the values of the various components can drift over time, and there's a lot of work to do typically to get it back to spec. You also need to deal with the death cap (though I'm not sure if they hadn't started properly grounding them by '78?). The other thing I find with the old ones is they break up much earlier than the new ones, so if you need clean headroom live it may be an issue. If it's a living room amp no worries...
     
  6. Gooner

    Gooner Senior Member

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    Have you thought about Reeves or Hi-tone, both Hand made in the US, I think and fit your criteria for clean?
     
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  7. AllTheSound

    AllTheSound Senior Member

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    For great tube cleans and reverb that hold together most of the way to 10 one of my favs is a 1966 Ampeg Gemini Vi they can be had pretty reasonable.
     
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  8. MichaelAndrew3435

    MichaelAndrew3435 Premium Member

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    Sounds like the safest, most affordable option if I go with the regular production model. I don’t know if the handwired USA model is worth $1,400 extra. I do want it though lol.
     
  9. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Senior Member

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    The regular models have great cleans. I don't care for their dirt, but no doubt it'd take pedals well if that's a color you like too.
     
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  10. charlie chitlins

    charlie chitlins Senior Member

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    Sorry, but this shows a lack of experience with old amps.
    Value drift is seldom a problem and some even feel that it can be the un-cloneable magic in an old amp.
    A death cap, even if a '70s Fender had one, is fixed in the amount of time it takes to snip a wire, AND...a 2-$250 service by a good tech can make an old amp as dependable as a new one. More dependable than many new ones.
     
  11. LeftyF2003

    LeftyF2003 Senior Member

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    I would agree in some cases. It really depends on the amp. I do have experience with the old amps (and played through a 70s silver face Bassman head for several years). I play regularly with a guy that runs a '69 Silver Face DR, and we've had 2 instances where something in the amp failed during a show related to the components. He has had the amp gone through twice, but things just keep breaking. Might just be that amp...

    The old DRs are great sounding amps, but since we're talking about clean headroom, though I love how they break up the old ones in my experience break up early, which can be an issue at band levels if the goal is to stay clean and let the pedals do the work.

    All that said I REALLY want a clean '68 to keep in the studio!

    My two pennies
     
  12. charlie chitlins

    charlie chitlins Senior Member

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    It's all about the tech. I've done hundreds of gigs with tweeds since the 80s and have had 1 failure. It was an amp that was relatively new to me and my tech hadn't been through it.
    YMMV.
     
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  13. Freddy G

    Freddy G V.I.P. Member

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    Clean? nothing easier to produce than dead clean guitar tone. Just plug in direct to a nice recording console or mic pre. That's a real clean tone.
     
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  14. TheWelder

    TheWelder Senior Member

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    Deluxe Reverbs aren't going to stay sparkling clean for very long. They are fine at bedroom volumes but they will break up fairly early - especially if you're playing higher output humbucker equipped guitar.

    With that said, Deluxe Reverbs are possibly my favorite amp of all time. Vintage ones, that is. I've never really cared for the DRRI without modifications. I do really like the '68 Custom Deluxe though - look into that model if you haven't already.

    Also, just my opinion, but for the price of that hardwired edition you would much be better off getting a real vintage Blackface DR.
     
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  15. MichaelAndrew3435

    MichaelAndrew3435 Premium Member

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    What are the real differences between the regular production DRRI, the USA hand-wired version, and a vintage model? I'm less likely to go vintage since I have no clue how to go about fixing anything that might need replacing. Local shops around here are few and far between.

    Do you mean the 68' Custom DRRI? Judging by the specs, it looks like a 22 watt version of what I have now (68' Custom PRRI 12 watt)
     
  16. Mike_LA

    Mike_LA Silver Supporter

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    Yah, I'm sure you guys are tired of hearing this but the only amp that let me put my 1964 Fender Princeton in the vault is my beloved Marshall 6101, Crystal clean tone for daaaaays
     
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  17. TheWelder

    TheWelder Senior Member

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    I've never tried the US hand-wired version so I can't directly speak to that. If I were to speculate, I'd say that the point to point wiring may add some warmth (although that's debatable) and it probably uses higher quality components. Plus it's US made rather than MIM. Does that equate to a $1400 price difference? I guess that all depends upon what you can afford. But then you start getting into the vintage price range which would be much more desirable IMO.

    As far as DRRI vs a true vintage BF Deluxe Reverb, IMO there is no comparison. There is a reason that BF Fender Deluxe Reverb is considered a 'holy grail' amp. They have a sweetness, warmth, and feel that just isn't present the DRRI. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a vintage cork-sniffer, far from it actually. I know a lot of folks love the DRRI and that's fine, but to me it's not really even a reissue as it doesn't sound like the originals without modifications.

    Fender doesn't call the '68 Custom Deluxe a reissue as it is a modified version of a Deluxe, but yes, it is from the same line as the '68 Princeton. IMO it is a much better sounding amp out of the box than the DRRI. The left channel is a Bassman circuit and the right channel is the Deluxe circuit. Plus, it has reverb and tremolo in both channels as opposed to just the right channel in the DRRI. It also is much warmer and rounder sounding - all my opinion, keep in mind, but there are YouTube videos that compare the two.

    If you already have a Princeton that you are already getting great Fender cleans at lower volume. If it is a headroom thing, I don't know that you'll be fully satisfied with a Deluxe. Despite being a higher wattage amp with a bigger speaker, they are designed to break up pretty early.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  18. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Senior Member

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    Forgive my ignorance, but is that something amenable by tube-rolling? I know my SF Bassman responded well to a V1 swap; would a Deluxe soften up as much?
     
  19. Freddy G

    Freddy G V.I.P. Member

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    It's not that....if this thread is truly about clean, sparkly sounds, then it's about the power amp section remaining in the linear band and not crossing into clipping. In a lowish watt amp like a deluxe you can't go very loud with clean before it hits the point where the power section cross from linear to clipping. Even though that curve sounds really good, and the cleans sound juicier because they beginning to get compressed and are not as spikey, it's not exactly a dead clean sound anymore. This is why a twin can do a really clean clean sound. Power amp headroom. Same with a Hiwatt for example.
     
  20. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Senior Member

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    Thanks, @Freddy G. I knew there was something awry with my thinking on the matter.
     

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