Capacitor Conspiracy Theory

Discussion in 'Tonefreaks' started by imitebelvis, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. David Collins

    David Collins Senior Member

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    Freefrog, though our results differ with different listening contexts and test methods, I certainly value your input here. Your analyses are honestly intriguing, and do seem carefully controlled and objectively approached enough to raise some real questions for me. I can't speak directly for Spitfire, but I get the impression he and other skeptics probably feel the same as honestly interested rather than just looking for a fault by which to dismiss your conclusions.

    I do of course question your conclusions, as you should of course question mine - how else do people who want answers get them? ;) We both know that neither of our methods are perfect, each approaching from different angles, each carried out without ulterior motive, yet arriving at different results. I do intend to look more closely at it with hopes of figuring out why they differ and/or how they may be reconciled.

    In your favor, you have provided at least some informally published results, while without me putting out real survey result numbers I admit my tests can be taken as merely anecdotal. Early surveys of mine were too informal, and while I never found anyone who could accurately identify a difference in any one test I didn't keep clear records of all the results either. The current survey I am keeping scores to better evaluate later, but I just don't have enough participant data to make for any statistically significant evaluation. I promise that I will "publish" results in due time, but we'll just have to wait a bit longer until I have sufficient results to appraise.

    Thanks again for your input here. And I never would have guessed that english wasn't your first language - your intentions and thoughts are spoken much more clearly than by many native speakers.
     
  2. freefrog

    freefrog Senior Member

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    Thx for the kind words. I feel a bit depressed/frustrated right now because...

    1) I'm terribly busy. So I can't devote to these tests all the time that I'd like to put in it;

    2) these last 48 hours, stimulated by Spitfire's request, I've tried to clarify my data & archives of hobbyist regarding 8 years of empirical tests and especially my experiments about caps. I have felt as if I was diving in moving sands... There's 6800 files about guitar gear in my main HD + I don't know how many others randomly disseminated in several HD's, CD's, USB keys and so on. Some data having been backed up from a dead computer, they refuse now to be opened. Some others are intact but related to programs that I can't use no more because they were in the dead PC. Some others that I was sure to have saved are now difficult or impossible to find... Argl! Not to mention that some results are ethically difficult to share because they involve my work of moderator on the website of a French luthier.

    So, I've the feeling that I'll have to REDO several tests by unsoldering some caps in my axes, resoldering pu's that I don't use no more and so on. It's the simplest solution and it will be a kind of double check / reality test for my previous experiments.

    I'll share my results (whatever they are) with Spitfire, with you and with everybody here but I need TIME. Thx for your understanding and patience.
     
  3. black sheep

    black sheep Junior Member

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    After watching the video of a fella on the net that compared nearly a dozen various capacitors mounted on some sort of board, there were differences in the various caps....small , but detectable.... what is obvious in his production, is, that he has some sort of frequency analyzing display, which very clearly shows small disparity in the amplitude of certain frequencies, as well as the omission of others.... what that tells me is that the capacitors alter the TIMBRE of the notes being made, each in there own specific way and I believe that to be the difference that I hear....perhaps each type of capacitor alters various frequencies slightly different....I am not well educated in the actual method in which the capacitor works, i do understand what its function is to be....and various types of capacitors DO sound different....no ifs,ands or buts.... PIO are smoother...k73 have extended dynamics...Orange drops have a wonderful, cool, cocked wah sound that is to die for...150s tend to be midrangey,ceramic disc are harsher sounding than the others.........
     
  4. David Collins

    David Collins Senior Member

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    I know it's a long read, but I assume you haven't read through this thread in its entirety? If not, I would recommend doing so. The video you are likely referencing was discussed in posts 42/46/47, along with a good deal of focus throughout this thread on testing methods in general, and their potential pitfalls. With all this in mind, I find it hard to see how anyone could take this video comparison to be a remotely objective or reliable comparison.
     
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  5. jimbob137

    jimbob137 Senior Member

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    Well the 50's wiring with russian PIO caps upgrade has definately changed the guitar. This wiring makes for great tonal range control, and the volume knobs now work very well inparticular for cleaning up or boosting into overdrive:thumb: you can literally clean up or overdrive without really affecting the volume coming out of the speaker and staying really well balanced tonally.

    This guitar is most certainly smoother sounding than before when it had ceramic caps, but also a modern wiring harness. Also in overdrive I have noticed more of a tendancy for some really cool sounds to come out, feedback and harmonics. The tone has this harmonic Fizzyness to it. The guitar does sound older :shock: if that makes sense.
     
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  6. jonesy77777

    jonesy77777 Senior Member

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  7. MesaDCLP

    MesaDCLP Senior Member

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    Biased how?
    Sure he sells caps but of all sorts.

    There is no conspiracy. Take your meds.
     
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  8. jonesy77777

    jonesy77777 Senior Member

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  9. Mookakian

    Mookakian Senior Member

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    ^ My god, your not serious?, Jonesy is completely open to all opinions, more so than anyone ive met :hmm:
     
  10. Mookakian

    Mookakian Senior Member

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    In fact he sends me samples on new caps he is trying, often with big orders, to get my thoughts at times, thats just crazy :wow:
     
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  11. Cas

    Cas Senior Member

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    LOL this thread makes me laugh.

    You guys can nerd-out all you want and try to scientifically prove all caps sound the same with the same values in guitars. Cool. More Power to you.

    All I care about is what I hear and THINK sounds better. I have stayed with my stock caps in my les paul standard now for several years. But they really do get muddy when I roll the tone down anything past 5, and ice-picky when its all-out. So I bought some russian PIO and am waiting for them to get in the mail.

    I have never tried this before, but I'll use my own ears to decide. If they dont do anything...wow...big deal I just wasted a whole 8 bucks on a cap change. I dont know how Ill ever recover that loss. lol

    And if they clean up the mud, well, bam. Best 8 bucks you can spend guitar-wise.

    I'm waiting for my new pickups to arrive and I will test them and see what happens!
     
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  12. jonesy77777

    jonesy77777 Senior Member

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  13. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    Well since you asked. Just wondering why out of all the vendors here at MLP you had to toss my name out as being biased and then go on and on about it? I don't even sell caps at my main website like a lot of other MLP vendors do. I deal exclusively with guitar wiring & pickup upgrades for the most part. I do have a variety of caps in my ebay store for those who are looking for them but I don't think that makes me biased as a lot of people are into swapping out caps in their guitars.

    By the Tone of your posts (pun intended :)) it seems like you are the one who is biased or have some type of agenda. :hmm:
     
  14. jonesy77777

    jonesy77777 Senior Member

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  15. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    Not the first time I've been attacked (or the last) and I often find myself in the center of conflict and controversy when the thread topic is capacitors, so just par for the course I guess. No biggie, I just shake it off and move on ;)
     
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  16. MrRhoads

    MrRhoads Senior Member

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    Well i´ve tried a few caps and the only time i was told about the sound i would get was when i bought some Russian K40´s.
    After that i´ve bought some other caps as well and when i bought the Bumblebees (Real ones) from Jonesy i didn´t ask what sound to expect nor did he tell me but i can assure you all that i was i a daze, Halelujah moment.
    I love the old ceramic caps to, they sound different than the bumblebees and they´re not harsh as modern ceramics are.
    I can hear the difference and sometimes it´s quite obvious even with controls on 10.

    In MotoGP the rider is 80% of the lap were the bike is 20%, so a great rider can go faster with a bad setup even though the bike doesn´t have the setup to go that fast.
    Also in MotoGP were they measure everything with computers and even in Formula 1 the slightest value makes a difference, it´s not that you can see 0,2seconds on a lap if you watch it but you can see the time once it´s posted on a scoreboard.
    Now take 0,2seconds times 30laps, that makes 6seconds on 30laps which is a big distance in motor racing like that.
    So the difference can so small that you can measure it but you can´t see it until a couple of laps.
    Now don´t you think thoose small changes could apply to caps to?

    If you don´t hear a difference i´m not gonna say that you have to belive it but if i hear the difference please don´t tell me it ain´t there.
    The slightest addition to conductance will help shift the resonance peak of a pickup while speaking of them testing boxes.
     
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  17. jonesy77777

    jonesy77777 Senior Member

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    I'm going to edit my post because it really wasn't meant to be an issue and I'm completely amazed that it is one. I just expect someone who sells a product to argue for it's importance in general, that's all I was saying. I'm not saying those that hear a difference are lying or not, just lets keep it coming from a neutral point of view. I don't know how it became more than that, I probably shouldn't have responded to the first attack against me. P.S. I don't know if you knew I was a HUGE MotoGP/F1 fan or not but well played bro, well played. I'm actually named after an F1 champion:wow:

    Oh, and Jonesy... sorry dude, no ill meant. But just to be clear, if you consider calling your position a conflict of interest being ATTACKED, then I'm afraid you are being overly-sensitive, and thank god I didn't tell you to get off your meds or of being on an agenda or something:) I'm biased in conversations that call Canada the best country in the world, or that Valentino Rossi is the greatest rider ever. I am biased by saying Les Pauls are the greatest guitars ever, and that replica's beat any Historic out there. It doesn't make me a bad guy, I just have a vested interest in those things:hmm: That's all folks, no more cap talk for me.
     
  18. Mookakian

    Mookakian Senior Member

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    :cool: if your ganna say sorry, you prob feel something was stated wrongly:hmm: At least your on the right path and it takes a strong mind to admit it. No one will be angry if one is trying to improve their being, stay strong and let go of that doubt in workers in the industry, some dudes just love tone and try to share ;)

    Peace and love brother!
     
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  19. jonesy77777

    jonesy77777 Senior Member

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    Sometimes you have to really listen to what people are saying to fully understand. My eyes have been opened my friend. Take care.
     
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  20. MesaDCLP

    MesaDCLP Senior Member

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    Very well spoken.
     
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