Buying from Japan possible again?

Discussion in 'Other Single-Cuts' started by Ph03n1x, Apr 29, 2017.

  1. JohnInNJ

    JohnInNJ Junior Member

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    If the paperwork was there, it would be no problem. If the CITES paper work were not there, customs would confiscate the guitar and I would never see it - you can't do the paper work retroactively from either the exporting or importing country. The onus is on the seller to do the correct paperwork. I used paypal for my transaction. If problems arose because the seller did not complete paperwork for the exporting country causing confiscation, I would assume my money would be refunded since I never received the guitar and the seller did not complete his obligations. (This is my main concern with eBay sellers, especially those who do not own the instrument they are selling or buying services like Zen Market.) I also imagine a lot of aggrevating headaches over this scenario. Ishibashi has stated on my original receipt and in today's email that money would be refunded so I'm just hoping there isn't a long delay. I could still loose with currency translations.

    The most troubling aspect of this for me is the current CITES regulations were put in place to track the export and import of certain woods which currently are not on anyone's endangered species list. How the refusal of the Japanese authorities to allow export of this guitar does that is beyond me. Of course the entire CITES regulation is a pile because it pays no mind to when the instrument was made. Since the guitar as of now has not been relisted on Ishibashi's website, I have a sneaking suspicion that someone walked into their store and bought it off the rack.
     
  2. GuitarRUSH

    GuitarRUSH Senior Member

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    This was for USA. Just because I have Alex Lifeson as my profile pic, doesn't mean I'm a canuck! ;)
     
  3. 64F100

    64F100 Senior Member

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    I guess that the problem may have been that Jacaranda might be interpreted as Brazilian, whether that is technically correct or not. I think the rules on import/export of Brazilian are much more strict?
     
  4. bertrand4070

    bertrand4070 Senior Member

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    none of the intermediate services join the cites certificate ? rynkya, jauce, buyee, smj....
     
  5. Ph03n1x

    Ph03n1x Senior Member

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    I contacted Rinkya. They don't fill out CITEs paperwork. They said technically the packages could be stopped. They then tried to say they have had no issues with packages being stopped due to CITEs. Like I would trust them on that one!

     
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  6. currypowder

    currypowder Senior Member

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    I've used From Japan to purchase several guitars since the beginning of the year, all but one with regular rosewood fretboards (no Jacaranda or Brazilian). There was no CITES paperwork on any of them (nor did I expect it). I took a don't ask, don't tell approach. I knew I was taking a risk, but they all got to me with no issue, other than customs delays unrelated to rosewood. Maybe as this new regulation becomes more known and works its way through the various systems of different countries, that will change. If I found another rosewood equipped guitar I really wanted, I would still take the chance.

    I am by no means an expert. But the way I've read the many articles and even the US Fish & Wildlife website implies to me that the responsibility falls to the exporter to obtain the proper paperwork. I don't know what that means in reality if a guitar gets confiscated as it relates to credit card and PayPal chargebacks. If I were an exporter, even one of the intermediaries in Japan, I would certainly not take that risk. I would either get the certificate or stop forwarding anything restricted. I know that I won't ship a guitar I'm selling across any international borders. I have considered getting the proper paperwork from US F&W, which apparently runs $200 for a master certificate plus $5 per certificate for individual instruments. But I just don't think I sell enough to justify the cost or general hassle of shipping from the US to other countries.

    Interestingly, the one guitar that I had shipped form Japan with an ebony board was the one a customs agent called me about. It's an FGN NCLC 20E that was shipped to me via FedEx. While en route, I got a call from an agent that was pre-clearing the guitar and he asked me if it had any mother of pearl. I'm pretty sure the inlays are MOP, but I answered not to my knowledge (which was true at the time) and that was the end of that. Guitar was delivered the next day.
     
  7. bertrand4070

    bertrand4070 Senior Member

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    smj has apparently the same behaviour as rinkya. they don't care because the guitar is already paid when arrived in custom. i will go on in this system only for very cheap guitars.
     
  8. nigelthebald

    nigelthebald Member

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    My Rinkya purchase got through with no problem.
     
  9. JohnInNJ

    JohnInNJ Junior Member

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    Ishibashi returned my money quickly enough, and I asked them about an Orville I saw on their website. That led to this e-mail from them...
    "Just Indian and African rosewood would be O.K., Bubinga as well.
    but we can not export lisence for Jakaranda (brazilian rosewood)...
    And we can get the export lisence only for the guitars we bought before 1st January 2017.
    Unfortunately we bought the following orville guitars in February 2017..."
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  10. Ph03n1x

    Ph03n1x Senior Member

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    This sounds odd. How do they know it is Jacaranda with any certainty?
     
  11. El Kabong

    El Kabong Senior Member

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    Even living in Japan I will not deal with Ishibashi... they are EXTREMELY dishonest in the way they conduct their business. They are a very rich company and could care less about individual customers...
     
  12. Skit

    Skit Witch Doctor Premium Member

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    Can you point out where paypal says anything about CITES? I can't find anything.
     
  13. LTigh

    LTigh Junior Member

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    He's been repeating the same thing on various threads without citing sources, and misspelling it "CITIES" at the same time.

    Rude comment deleted
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2017
  14. JohnInNJ

    JohnInNJ Junior Member

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    Never thought of that! Even tho the seller is responsible for paperwork, if there is none, the guitar is considered contraband and you, as the buyer would be receiving contraband merchandise - illegal! So the guitar is confiscated are you would be out the money.

    I just don't want to go down in history as being the first to whom this law was applied. Gonna stick to buying stateside only.
     
  15. nigelthebald

    nigelthebald Member

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    Or you could buy from a seller who does the paperwork.
     
  16. wulfman

    wulfman ABB Fan Premium Member

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    That is too bad to hear. I had only a very good service from Ishibashi when I lived over there. It may depend a bit on which location and human sales unit you deal with of course!
     
  17. JohnInNJ

    JohnInNJ Junior Member

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    What's odd to me is their statement that they can only get export licenses for guitars they bought before 1/1/2017. HUH? Where is THAT written anywhere?
     
  18. El Kabong

    El Kabong Senior Member

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    I've purchased about a dozen guitars from Ishibashi in the past, many of them high-end Les Pauls, and was the go-between on many, many more and then one day they decided to give me the shaft. They have absolutely no loyalty to their customers and care only about money. Their staff is young and inexperienced and know nothing at all about the products they are selling and with the exception of Jason and Hiroaki they are completely worthless. They've already lost tens of thousands of dollars for dissing me and will no doubt lose tens of thousands of dollars more... all because they have no respect and no loyalty. I will never buy from them again.
     
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  19. Dino Velvet

    Dino Velvet Senior Member

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    I called paypal because I wasn't finding the CITIES info on the site, which owing to the microscopic percetentage of their business it effects I wasn't surprised. I had to be put through to 2 different people before I reached someone knowledgeable. They also said if they file a claim on this matter you will also be liable for any customs fees in addition to losing all your money. So there ya go. Support your local flipper instead. No one wants to be the first one to get tagged on this.
     
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  20. currypowder

    currypowder Senior Member

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    My guess would be that it's easy for them to prove the guitar in question had pre-convention (1/1/17) rosewood if they have a purchase invoice showing they purchased it before that date. It's probably not that much more difficult to prove a guitar was manufactured before that date, and maybe they will in the future.
     

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