Bumble Bee Capacitors & The 59' Myth

Discussion in 'Tonefreaks' started by jonesy, Apr 1, 2008.

  1. vortexx

    vortexx Senior Member

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    Because of the nature of the beast many people who are guitarists or in bands may not be able to hear the difference due to hearing impairment from using loud volume regularly. There was a guitar magazine article where the author talked about someone (perhaps himself, I don't recall) who was the only person in the guitar shop who could still hear the phone.
     
  2. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    It is a little hard to tell from the pic but it may be an orange drop polypropylene cap of some type. Does it have any numbers or writing on it? 715P with a single 2 in a cicle and a series off numbers like 223 etc would designate Sprague .022 etc. Also looks like some serious oxidation going on inside that Tele control cavity as well.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. 5F6-A

    5F6-A Senior Member

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    it looks like a silver mica to me....
     
  4. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    Might very well be H? Hard to tell if the color is off in the pic (red or orange?) and no numbers visible??
     
  5. Raiseittoeleven24

    Raiseittoeleven24 Member

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    Thanks for the info! I'll check to see if there is a number on it when I pick it up from the guitar tech this weekend. Is the oxidation bad? (I know it can be but it said on the net it could be good sometimes. & is there anything I should do to the control cavity to clean it or something) Yeah I just got it a couple weeks ago and before that it hadn't been touched for a couple years, just sitting in its case.
    Thanks!
     
  6. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    The oxidation can affect your switch and pots and may cause some crackle. Electrical contact cleaner in a spray can will help.
     
  7. 5F6-A

    5F6-A Senior Member

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    oxidation creates a thin NON CONDUCTIVE layer leading to noise that comes and goes and other sonic debris. Not good at all when it comes to electronics.
     
  8. Raiseittoeleven24

    Raiseittoeleven24 Member

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    Ah, ok. I have electrical contact cleaner, should I just spray it over all the electronics in the cavity?
    Thanks!
     
  9. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    Yeah, make sure you get it into the pots. Take off the knobs and spray it into the shafts from the top and rotate them back and forth, also spray them from the bottom. Wipe up excess with a rag. Spray into switch and move it back and forth as well. Wipe off the bottom of control plate and inside of control cavity, that should help also.
     
  10. Raiseittoeleven24

    Raiseittoeleven24 Member

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    Ok, thanks alot! I'll def. do that. :thumb:
     
  11. MorePau1

    MorePau1 Senior Member

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    That stuff saved my amp, it is amazing, the amp was barely working before I sprayed some of that stuff in there.

    Also, I've been thinking about something for a while now. When I changed the caps in one of my LPs, it had some red chiclet caps, presumably polypropylene, and I changed the neck out to a new old stock k40 PIO 0.015, I didn't really notice a difference. The caps that were in there before, just said 223j. I didn't bother a/b ing them, and I probably could tell a bit of difference if I did, but If the only time I'm going to notice, is if I'm a/bing them... just a thought, I'm still going to put PIOs in my guitars, and any other things I do, for one, they look cool, and they will probably last a lot longer, and they don't cost all that much more than ceramics of orange drops, if you buy a bunch of em, and I know they sound better, even if I can't hear it, but my ears aren't all that great. Just my $0.02, and I probably couldn't hear the difference, because It took me a few minuts to put the caps in, and I just didn't remember. I've had this idea of mounting a switch under the pickguard, (I saw a guy do it for a treble bleed) and wire two caps to the switch, and then dremel out a place for the wires, on the pickup cover, and then wires to the tone pot, to be able to switch between 2 tones, per pickup, without something external, like an eq pedal. Combine that with a coil tap, and then you've got the most versatile guitar ever.
     
  12. vortexx

    vortexx Senior Member

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    I just wanted to add that sometimes people have used WD40 instead. Never use WD40 instead of contact cleaner.
     
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  13. 5F6-A

    5F6-A Senior Member

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    true
    WD40 is NOT a contact cleaner....
     
  14. Raiseittoeleven24

    Raiseittoeleven24 Member

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    Thanks again for the info! What exactly indicates the oxidation? The cap looks to be dark red.
    Here are a couple more pictures:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    one of the pots says this:
    019064 250k-AUD 0446 CTS
    Does that indicate anything? (I know what 250k means and CTS but do the numbers indicate a date of some sort?)
     
  15. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    The white powdery stuff all over the metal plate and pots is/was oxidation.

    BTW I did a little checking on your capacitor and I think if it is dark red and by the shape of it, there's a good chance it may be a Xicon polyester capacitor, similar to the red and green chiclet poly film caps. I would swap it out for a good paper in oil when you get a chance ;)
     
  16. kscience

    kscience Junior Member

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    No doubt someone already pointed this out, but-

    Capacitors are 2 layers of foil separated by 2 layers of insulators [dielectrics].

    Newer caps are metallized plastic film as its way cheaper this way. However- if you can get some metalized plastic film look at the resistance per foot vs the resistance of say, metal foil proper. It is MUCH higher on the metallized plastic film.

    So, the esr of the capacitor weighs in ["self resistance"].

    Then there is what is called a dielectric coefficient- unity is given to air. Teflon, ceramic, polystyrene, glass, paper in or out of oil all have widely different coefficients. So some caps of the same value will be big, others much smaller.

    Even so it takes an artist to hear the oft times subtle differences here.

    Every capacitor tastes different. California apricots are way sweeter than Yakima apricots. Same with components.
     
  17. kscience

    kscience Junior Member

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    Hey youse guise want a secret? The best pot cleaner ever for guitar pots, or any over 250k really

    Lock Ease graphited lock lubricant. I tried other brands- its Lock Ease. Put in a little after you shake it up; spin the pot a few times and q tip up what is left over.

    If the pot is physically used up, it will not help. But it is sintered graphite that makes the resistive element; this stuff fills scratches like tone putty.

    Thank me later- I discovered this stuff by accident in wisconsin and used it to unfreeze the reverb pot in Robert Cray's super reverb. It was the only one that did not crackle.
     
  18. onehippie

    onehippie Senior Member

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    just came across this thread good stuff
     
  19. Sethlover72

    Sethlover72 Member

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    I dont think ´the good ´59´ tone comes from Caps, but from the craftmanship, woods, saddle, PU, good strings..:slash:

    cheers
     
  20. Mouse

    Mouse Senior Member

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    okay I have my preferences with latest lester - 50's RIZ (Radio Industry Zagreb) wax polyester caps which are very rare and 50's wiring. I know by the stories of friends which have played in the states that somehow 60Hz makes things mellower but dunno really if my setting would be more honk or oink in US.Though glad to hear that USSR oil is ''sounding'' warmer in US, those silver cans from Novosibirsk are not my idea of warmth LoL

    Here are some Elektrokomunikacije Slovenia caps from about my fathers early childhood or very last years of Nikola Tesla. They are glass tube type with something like black resin plugs at sides. How to call these... Tesla's black hornets? is there anywhere with this vintage thing point to draw a line :D


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