Beginner guitarists asking for amp advice

Discussion in 'Amp Modeling' started by Rocco Crocco, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    You are well spoken. This is why we are friends.

    A few things come to mind as I read your post. First off. I hate Les Pauls. they do nothing for me anymore. I found that out after I purchased 9 of them in various models. Why be here then? Cause of the people.

    Secondly, you are too subline over the whole thing. There is no Magic amp. The reasons the "hero's" played what they did was just because that is all they had. There was no choice.

    Of course there are those that love their 57 Chevy.. Their Betamax recorder, their Zenith CRT TV.. No question about that. However, those items are going nowhere. Well maybe the 57 Chevy has a future.. hahahah

    Look, there is no mystery here. Sound, either from a live performance or on a record/DVD is all that matters. It matters not what produced it.

    When you have current technology that more then duplicates everything about a fragile tube amp. Fragile in MANY ways.. there is no reason for the tube amp in a practical sense. Trophy's like the 57 Chevy? Sure, that half stack JMP looked GREAT in my office.
     
  2. Matty

    Matty Senior Member

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  3. Joeydego

    Joeydego your mom is a nice lady V.I.P. Member

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    I still think there's a little more to it than that. Modelers can sound great but I've yet to hear anything better than my favorite amps. Heard the helix earlier this month up against it (I was in the audience) and still.
     
  4. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    And there my friends is the only reason left to have one of those.. They look great.. hahahahahah
     
  5. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    Much respect Joey.. For sure. You like what you like and that's that. However, as I have said, from a PRACTICAL standpoint there is no reason for those monster amps anymore. Only reason is just because you want it. Not because it makes you sound better.

    Regarding you listening to a Helix.. I can not tell you how many ways, cabinet IRs, amp models, mic placements, mic types, tube types, transformer types and a slew of other parameters that are available. So if you were unhappy in some way with what you heard, you would have the opportunity to change it..

    One day.. and it might be soon. You will come on this forum and tell everyone that you are using (fill in the blanks with brand X high end modeler) and you are blown away. It's going to happen..

    As they say in Star Wars.. "It is your destiny"
     
  6. Joeydego

    Joeydego your mom is a nice lady V.I.P. Member

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    I may be getting the helix soon. It sounded good. Light years ahead of line 6 amps. It's priced right.
     
  7. Matty

    Matty Senior Member

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    Hey Joey, the Amplifire is cheaper. And it would suit your style to a Tee. :thumb:
     
  8. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    "It is your destiny"

    Flexibility of Helix and better PC interface is a good choice. OR Fractal AX8 where you have support out the ass.
     
  9. Joeydego

    Joeydego your mom is a nice lady V.I.P. Member

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    You guys hear the ISP Theta? That thing was really impressive as well.
     
  10. Pwrmac7600

    Pwrmac7600 Premium Member

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    Well all I can really say to this is; why would the Helix/Kemper/AxeFX/Atomic be any different from a real amp? It is subject to the same subjectivity in tone as a tube amp. Everyone dials in tone to what sounds good to them, what tone works for them. I have heard guys live playing JCM800's that sound like dog ****, BUT I know the JCM800 is not a **** amp, I have owned one, I know It's just the way that guy had it dialed in.

    So hearing one and actually having one in your hands to dial in how you like is really key. We won't even talk about the psychological aspect of the whole thing....
     
  11. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    I gotta look that one up.

    Interesting
    http://www.isptechnologies.com/portfolio/theta-pre-amp-pedal/

    See where the R&D is going.. It's not in tube amps.. That last model came out... what 20 years ago? Everything after that has been a take on the original..
     
  12. cybermgk

    cybermgk Singin' the body lectric Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    ^^^^^^ Spot on

    Because one CHOOSES to dial in a tone that doesn't sound great to one person, doesn't mean it is incapable. In fact, in this regard, an older tube amp is actually harder to adjust to a broader spectrum of tastes. There is just less tonal range to begin with.
     
  13. penguinchit

    penguinchit Senior Member

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    I didn't read through everything so I just have one question:

    Is this a my ***** is bigger/better than your ***** debate?
     
  14. cybermgk

    cybermgk Singin' the body lectric Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    Granted, conceded agree 100%.

    Not for me. Yep, prefer the carved top of a Les Paul. But, I have 2 Tributes, a special and 2 Epi LPs. Hardly holy grail. I got each for How they look, how they play, and how they sound. Yes, guitars I care a little more how they look, But ultimately, I care about where the rubber hits the road, how they perform as a guitar.

    But, I don't begrudge anyone from feeling like you do about them.

    Such as ability to make a consistent tone, regardless of venue, ability to make music, ease of transport, ease to record and get good tone. Yeah I agree with the premise, but I am guessing not the particulars.

    Yes - the reaction between guitar and amp is important. And I still hold that if the modeller crowd accept that the totality of the sonic output can differ between valve and modeller then you must also accept that this could alter the way the guitar reacts to that sonic output. Equally, non-sonic qualities can come into play: in the same way that a guitar that feels right or inspires you can make you play better, so too can an amp.[/quote]
    I agree with most of this. HOWEVER, it has an underlying tone, that how my Kemper, or an Axe responds to a guitar, and vice versa is 'less'. Sorry but that is the hidden message, the above has, really giving the body of your posts in this thread as context, as well as the rest of this post.

    It is obvious, you have never played a Kemper or an Axe. It really is. You do realize I was a tube bigot, of the highest order? My biggest concern/problem with modelers and profilers was they just wouldn't respond like my tube amps.

    THEN, I actually tried one. I was blown away, because, If I didn't look at the amp, I couldn't tell it wasn't a tube amp. Not in how it sounded, responded, felt, reacted with me and guitar, guitar reacted with it. The tech HADN'T been to that level in the past. But, it is now.

    On all but the last sentence, kudos for you, live long and prosper. Me, I acknowledge all those things. But, they just aren't important to me.

    I also value the 1000s of scientific breakthroughs, inventions, steps it took to get to where we can make something like my Kemper.

    But, I still look at it, evaluate it, as the tool that it is, not some mystic mojo connection to my forefathers. If that gets you to play, cool. Not me.

    Agree to a point. The music was always more important to me, than the image. Just was/is. And I NEVER thought about what amp my idols played.

    And, my tastes and wants and needs have changed, matured over the years.

    I miss Photomats too. Miss a lot of once was. Price of getting old and progress. Learned a long time ago, though, to roll with it, accept it, because it is I-N-E-V-I-T-A-B-L-E. Can't change what I can't change, and it's wasted energy getting bothered by it.

    Now, to the last sentence. Nope. Still need good models, and good playing of them.
     
  15. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    Damn straight it is... Join in..:thumb:
     
  16. cybermgk

    cybermgk Singin' the body lectric Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    That made me spit out soda laughing
     
  17. cybermgk

    cybermgk Singin' the body lectric Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    Premier Guitar seems to like it

    Doesn't sound substantially awe-inspiring. Sounds decent, but I wasn't blown away. MIND you we are talking utube vids.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ujn6PvPgZ4[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyVTN8Zym38[/ame]

    The Theta Pro seems like it might be an option for those that don't want to dig into a Helix or Axe floor, giving up functionality for lesser tonal range and easier use.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MazGsTMlBLA[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2n_rXOcWxs[/ame]

    NO idea on the responsiveness or feel. If I were to bet it might be on the order of the better dirt pedals.
     
  18. chasenblues

    chasenblues Senior Member

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    i'd bet a "Beginner guitarists" eyes would've glazed over 4-5 pages ago and they went somewhere else.
     
  19. tolm

    tolm Bigsby Junkie Premium Member

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    Nah, it's a "my inflatable dildo is the same size as your c*ck" debate. :) :) :)
     
  20. cybermgk

    cybermgk Singin' the body lectric Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    [sigh], at least get the analogy correct "my bionic peinile replacement is bigger and better than your wilted c*ck"

    Or actually, even MORE accurates, "My bionic surrogate body has a bigger/better c*ck than your tired old body does".
     

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