Are '50s Les Pauls really much more resonant than later ones?

Discussion in 'Vintage Les Pauls' started by the passenger, May 24, 2017.

  1. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

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    Nobody told me. It is a physically correct description of energy flows through the system. You can work it out from basic principles. If the guitar sounds loud and resonates unplugged, energy is moving rapidly from strings to body. This reduces the volume and sustain of the amplified sound. It cannot be otherwise. Wood does not add energy to the system, so if it is resonating audibly, it is *removing* energy from the system. Physics trumps myths every time.

    There is no failure of reasoning. You can argue (as you do) that there are subtle tonal modulations arising from the density of the wood, but the major effect of wood is on the volume and sustain of the amplified signal. Bloom is an artefact of (PAF) pickups. Ask any winder.
     
  2. A-No.1

    A-No.1 Junior Member

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    I think we both need to get out from behind the computer.
     
  3. Mouse

    Mouse Senior Member

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    Use your ears, that fine instrument will get you beyond false reasoning and quarrel. Physics starts with fact of senses and goes to the matter and theory, not other way around.
    So in this case, if we cannot hear or haven't really played 50's pauls there is nothing to talk. There is no fabric, substance or whatever you like to hear.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  4. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

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    The tone on your 54 Goldtop clip is lovely. Don't mistake me: I do hear it.

    I'm really curious about where the Uher 22 Special reel to reel tape recorder is in the signal chain?

    * * *

    Sure, we're hearing because physics. But theory explains why we hear what we do.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  5. Mouse

    Mouse Senior Member

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    Reel to reel hears things, especialy low middle and highs, more like our ears. What happens is that low midd remains grit like we hear in flesh with our senses and highs are a bit different too than pure digital recording. Some would say highs are compresed but people more into this kind of analog recording would say it's not compressing but little wow or flutter is causing a subtle chorusing or flange effect on highs which is pleasing to our ears /or/causing effects similar to compression or translation of our ear/brain.
    Uher reel to reel in that clip is recording machine and 'hears' sound wave pressure through dynamic mic (close miking). so to be clear, it is not in the guitar/amp signal chain but is just recording device. Recording from the tape is digitalized so that i can upload it on youtube.
    First half of recording is a little dirty (TS pedal) and second is clean- just amp.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  6. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

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    Really interesting, thanks. I understand what you are saying. But I hope you can see that it's difficult for devil's advocates to separate the tonal influences of the old, degenerating P90s, the wood and the 1960s-vintage tape recorder. But it does sound very nice :)
     
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  7. Mouse

    Mouse Senior Member

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    Your whole post is brilliant! and i agree, i just quoted this part cause it's good chance to hear brand new guitar done with oldgrowth wood. if it would sound very different i don't know, the time will tell but damn sure it sounds good as new- in flesh and via recording.
    No pedals, no attenuator, just amp and cable (jtm45 kt66)

     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
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  8. Mouse

    Mouse Senior Member

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    I can see what can cause difficulties but i do believe that great guitar stays great no matter of the recording technique.
    Of course, if we deal with good recording technique. That said, you can't put what isn't already there.
    That's the devil.
     
  9. {JAKE}

    {JAKE} Senior Member

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    FML what a wankfest. If_____ guitarist had plugged into a 2 x4 covered in dog shite, you would all worship that as well.
     
  10. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

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    Well, I'm basically sceptical, Jake bach. Read my posts again, if you like.
     
  11. grayd8

    grayd8 Senior Member

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    That 2010 signature that Don Felder uses on tour and the guitar world hotel California video sounds pretty damn good to my ears, good enough that I gave up on trying to acquire a vintage LP.
     
  12. sunhunter

    sunhunter Junior Member

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    here's a video of a original '60 vs a reissue

     
  13. asapmaz

    asapmaz Senior Member

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    They're not even in the same league imo.
     
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  14. GermHerm

    GermHerm Member

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    This is exactly what we all should keep in mind! 'GIGO'! Think about 'young' Clapton or Paul Kossoff, they had - so to speak - new LP Standards. Were they iconic players with an iconic sound at that time? Yes!
    We like all these wonderful instruments but it's not only the 'technology'. It's in the fingers, cf. Joe Bonamassa in various videos. :band:. And by the way .... when the drummer comes in ....
     
  15. Lousyatit

    Lousyatit Senior Member

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    So, I have to ask, how many 50's Les Pauls have you owned or played?
     
  16. eric ernest

    eric ernest V.I.P. Member

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    One of the most overlooked elements of vintage guitars is.....shrinkage.

    The wood shrinks WAY MORE that the average person would ever believe. That's why old Fender necks are often very difficult to get of the neck pocket. They didn't fit like that when they were new.

    I took a neck off of a guitar and aged the body by sticking it in my van for 2 years. When I went to put the neck back on it, it wouldn't fit. Not even CLOSE. It required an astonishing amount of reworking of the neck pocket to make it fit.
     
  17. Bill Hicklin temp

    Bill Hicklin temp Senior Member

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    If age is part of the voodoo, then why do we associate Holy Grail Tone with a record cut when Beano was only 6 years old?
     
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  18. Sunburstman

    Sunburstman Senior Member

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    As a novice builder and guitar player, I would guess the voodoo is old growth cut and air dried many years ago before being turned into a les paul sunburst where it is very resonant, also its in the fingers of the player, and the players use of effects, amps, and finally use of studio mixing.
     
  19. 58 special

    58 special Senior Member

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    the lumber used in the 50's was old lumber by the time it was made into guitars.
    Today guitars are made with lumber that had leaves on it last week.

    I jest but some truth lies in there somewhere
     
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  20. eric ernest

    eric ernest V.I.P. Member

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    Because much of the recording equipment and other electronics used were tube, well designed, well made, and comprised a lot of the overall tone of the recording.

    It also doesn't hurt to be Eric Clapton....
     

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