Another Dumpsterburst

Discussion in 'Gibson Les Pauls' started by 2manyGuitars, Oct 24, 2017.

  1. 2manyGuitars

    2manyGuitars Senior Member

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    My guess would be;
    - headstock broken in shipping (insured)
    - GC calls Gibson who says “we’ll cover the guitar”
    - GC asks “do we send it back?”
    - Gibson says “Don’t bother, we’re just going to destroy once it gets here. Can you bust it up for us?”

    You’d think why doesn’t GC fix it and sell it at a discount? After all, with a good repair, I’d buy it at the right price. But if you’re GC and you can get it replaced for free, why would you pay for it (even if Gibson cuts them a break), pay for the repair, and then take who knows how long to sell it at a deep discount?
     
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  2. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Senior Member

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    How much do they make throwing them away?

    It's retail. You mark it down until it moves, but you don't give it away -- or throw it away, which is the same thing.
     
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  3. Axis39

    Axis39 Senior Member

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    Except that part of their agreement with Gibson will guaranty a minimum sale price. I mean, we would hope that we could walk into GC and buy an LP for 350 bucks because ti had a broken neck, but I am 99.999% sure, GC can probably only lower the price of a new Gibson maybe 40%? 50%, anybody seen that? Not me.

    But, GC knows they only lose a small percentage of the guitars to shipping incidents. In all honesty, they probably don't lose so many to in store accidents either, maybe some studios that get left out on stands in traffic flow. But, in every GC I've been in, the nice LPs are way up high and it's a PITA to get them down, so employees are hesitant.

    The discussion the dude has with the GC employee above in the video is mind boggling. I'm just not sure what 'inventory problem' could justify beating a guitar with a hammer... Unless the dude is just kinda broken and likes destroying guitars and has somehow come up with a scam to GC to justify it on his inventory loss reports?
     
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  4. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Senior Member

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    True enough ... my retail mgmt experience is not in durable goods, and I wasn't looking at it from that perspective. I should have.
     
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  5. Axis39

    Axis39 Senior Member

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    Personally, I don't really understand this perspective. I mean Gibson's, not yours! LOL

    One thing that I can honestly say, from a consumer perspective is that until I had the opportunity to own a high end guitar, I never had the idea that I needed one. I am not a wealthy collector. But, I do use my guitars as tools of the trade. I understand the need for high end tools, but sometimes they are just beyond our reach. However, once I ended up owning a high end guitar, I found the ease of use, the feel and that little something made me stop looking at lesser instruments as much and buying more high end stuff... It's like i tapped the keg, the money for higher end instruments began to flow a little easier.

    I had been Les Paul free for a few years when I happened upon my Custom Lite with the broken headstock repair. Because it was more affordable than a mint version, I could justify it... Having it has led to two other Gibson purchases. It also has me more curious and willing to consider higher dollar Custom Shop models, etc.

    It's like a gateway drug! LOL

    Gibson might want to consider this and modify their draconian agreements? I mean realistically, if they started selling seconds, I know a boat load of guys on the forums collections would surge in size... Might cover some of that debt?

    I know, it's probably very naive of me... But, I've had worse ideas.
     
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  6. Axis39

    Axis39 Senior Member

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    Oh, and to be fully honest, I have no idea what's in the retail agreement between Gibson and it's retailers. i just know business contracts and have heard whispers of the details online...
     
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  7. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Senior Member

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    It makes sense from the perspective of the mfr ... except that Gibson does ship out a bit of crap that should have been sawn up in the factory.
     
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  8. Tobin1634

    Tobin1634 Senior Member

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  9. Becker34

    Becker34 Member

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    I'd think it has to do with perception of Gibson being a premium brand, with that brand carrying a higher price point. They don't want to cheapen it. The old "perception is everything" deal.
     
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  10. Axis39

    Axis39 Senior Member

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    I get what you're saying.... Except they have such a crappy QC/Finish reputation right now amongst the Interwebians. Along with the fact that so many used Gibsons already have broken headstocks.

    I cannot imagine them selling repaired or B-stock would, in any way, cheapen the brand. But, at the same time, executive blindness would easily supplant common sense.
     
  11. Becker34

    Becker34 Member

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    Again... perception. IMO, even more so in the day and age of internet wank-fests. You want to have as much control over your image as you can - I know, QC issues be damned, right? They're probably not as worried about someone getting a repaired guitar for 60% of MSRP as they are about someone blathering on about "OMFG GUITAR CENTER IS SELLING LES PAULS WITH BROKEN NECKS!!!!1!1!" or "Gibson QC is sooooo bad..." to anyone who will listen. Many consumers have a hard time separating what happens at the factory and the checkout counter. If you can avoid a headache, sometimes ya gotta eat inventory.
     
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  12. bum

    bum Senior Member

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    Yup it's basically this. It's ridiculous but it happens a lot. A friend of mine works in the automotive industry and Bentley do this thing where if a car breaks down the first thing they do is cover it so no one can see it. They actually have a team of people ready to roll to do this as the company will not tolerate people seeing a broken down Bentley at the side of the road.
    It's the same when he goes to repair a windshield, the cars are covered until fixed.
    Brands are important, it's important to protect them. I can't help feeling in Gibson's case there has to be some middle ground though - it just feels all kinds of wrong to trash a guitar, especially to nerds like us who know full well we could get em fixed up easy enough.
     
  13. Axis39

    Axis39 Senior Member

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    When you're in debt up to your eyeballs, it might be time to loosen the rains....


    Just saying. LOL
     
  14. Leña_Costoso

    Leña_Costoso Senior Member

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    I believe the agreement Gibson has regarding price is only in regard to the minimum advertised price. I would highly doubt that Gibby guarantees a certain dollar amount (or percentage) on each sale. Minimum advertised price, MAP pricing, has been deemed "legal" by courts, although it is really just a form of price fixing.

    The way it goes is like this: You cannot advertise lower than a certain price. That is, unless you have permission from the manufacturer. They will often allow "certain" lower prices to be advertised -
    - By blanket permission when stock is more than a certain age. Ie, over two model years, and you can automatically have permission to cut... 10% or !5% or what have you

    - By special promotion for the manufacturer - and all distribution cuts their price

    - By what is called "market development", which is where a retailer opens up a location in a new market area and gets permission to offer limited time lower pricing, or other promotional pricing

    Stores CAN sell for any amount they choose. They just cannot advertise. The way it made it thought the courts was that its a good thing for small mom and pop retailers, since they can "deal" with customers while big box stores just go on MAP pricing, which usually (in my own trades) is about a 35 percent GP.

    Big boxes usually work reverse deals with manufacturers. Dunno about GC and such, but they usually have no questions asked return policy at stores with MAP pricing, because the manufacturer backs all returns for defects 100 percent, and because they get to run "open box" specials and such on items that are just "returned" and unbroken.

    MAP pricing started in the 1970s in the photo trades. I was there. We kept up on the news regarding the same. At one point, we had what we used to call "schlock-houses" in NYC, Boston, NJ, Chicago, LA, Atlanta... selling photo gear at 3% above low, low, net. Mom and pops had a hard time dealing with it, even though... the schlock-houses usually pulled all included items like strap, caps, battery, instruction manual, any accessory - and sold them separately to make some dollars. MAP pricing was slowly instituted, forcing the demise of the schlock dealers. Then dealer standards were introduced, and the manufacturers also started the "whats in the box" listings, so folks didn't get cheated. Along the way, multiple lawsuits were brought at the state and federal level and (mostly) upheld MAP pricing, with the argument that patrons could ALWAYS try to negotiate for lower prices, even with MAP pricing in effect.

    MAP pricing is how Home Depot, Lowes, large electronics retailers, photo retailers... all "guarantee the lowest price" (which means lowest advertised price). Bring in the competing ad (which cannot exist) and they'll beat it by 10 percent! BS... total BS, never happens (hardly, unless its by mistake).

    Eventually, this passed into other retail as well. Like music retail now, so it seems.

    Then the manufacturers started to play games.... like forcing out mom and pop from carrying "big box only" items. Or giving mom and pop the run around on defects, or literally shipping returned items (from MAP agreements with big boxes) to mom and pop as first tier items, or... just closing mom and pop all together, which means that MAP is once again a price fixing scheme.

    Remember the good old days, when you could walk in to Sam Ash and get an instant 40 percent off "list" just for showing up... then haggle from there? Ah old times.....
     
  15. Malchik

    Malchik Senior Member

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    I can see why Gibson demands these guitars be destroyed. Once Gibson gives them a refund on a guitar that slipped through QC they don't want to give GC a refund only for them to double dip by fixing the guitar and selling it. At my place of work when a product is damaged we call it in for a refund and then throw it out despite the fact most of the product in a case can be salvaged. Some people at the store will resell a refunded product in their department, but I throw away the good with the bad because it's in essence stealing.
     
  16. 2manyGuitars

    2manyGuitars Senior Member

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    Everyone keeps talking about these being guitars with QC issues. I still say these were likely headstock breaks from shipping.

    What do you think? Gibson’s entire QC department missed a big enough flaw to warrant going “hammer time” on an R9 yet the blue-haired 18 year-old with a javelin through his face spotted it while unboxing it?
     
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  17. Malchik

    Malchik Senior Member

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    I got a Made 2 Measure Les Paul Custom with garbage electronics that I had to send back for warranty work, don't underestimate Gibson's failure to test examine their products thoroughly. Regardless, My point still stands.
     
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  18. B5Erik

    B5Erik Senior Member

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    If Gibson is concerned about perceived Brand Value, then they could just fix them and remove the Gibson logo and replace it with a different name. Those would then not be considered true Gibsons, but still great values for the money. It might actually INCREASE the perceived value of Gibson guitars if people believed that all the flawed or damaged Gibsons were taken off the market, fixed, and rebranded under a different name, leaving the true Gibsons nearly flawless (or at least that would be the perception).

    Gibson would still get some money out of those guitars (maybe half the Gibson price - a hell of a lot better than nothing), and possibly improve the reputation of Gibson branded guitars.

    Just a thought.
     
  19. mgdesigns

    mgdesigns Junior Member

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    There is a company just outside of Nashville, TN (MIRC) that refurbished seconds, broken inventory, discontinued stock, etc, and re serializes them for resale to dealers. But Gibsons are not handled there to the best of my knowledge. They sell to dealers who buy at least 10 at a time for resale. At deep discounts.
     
  20. Dan Gibbs

    Dan Gibbs Junior Member

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    I think everyone missed the press release from the end of 3rd-quarter 2016. These are available only through select Guitar Centers as a limited-production run of 666.

    "The "Gibson Les Paul Angry-Girlfriend RAGE Relic Models" (model R8GE)"

    "Note the extensive relic-ing process to the Richlite fingerboard, the Randomly-Intonated de-Plek'ed fret tuning, Hammer-Tone Cherry Sunburst finish in Distressed Nitrocellulose Lacquer, the Mallet-Tuned Pickups & Controls, and our new Quik-Detach Peghead (Patent Applied For). A fresh pack of Gibson Boomer strings and Amber Speed Knobs are included as case candy for those players who prefer a more traditional Les Paul feel (some assembly required). MSRP $US 12,999.00 with Lifton Feline-Urine Relic'ed Case"

    "Nothing Beats a Gibson! Er...well, You Know What We Mean."
     
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