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Discussion in 'Vintage Les Pauls' started by Midnight Blues, Dec 5, 2015.
So it hasn't sold?
Without getting into it, I stand by my statement. And it's not just a guess. I'm leaving it at that.
Didn't sell at US$250k to the buyer (which was also US$200K to the seller).
If you view that as a measure of the market value of this guitar, perhaps someone will go directly to the seller now with somewhere between US$200k and $250k. Win/win for the buyer/seller.
Of course if seller isn't willing to sell for less than 225k pounds, it may remain unsold.
That'll be interesting to see then.
Wishful thinking. If Ringo's Starr's iconic drum kit much went for over $2 million, you can expect the most famous guitar in the world to surpass $1 million, easily.
When pricing Bursts, here's what has been my experience: They are so expensive, that celebrity association really doesn't add a whole lot to it, unless that person is so famous, that it now goes into a different level of memorabilia. If this is played by Page, Richards, Garcia or Hendrix, or somebody that is such a cultural icon, and this is known as their instrument, I can't see somebody's fame adding much value to the guitar. There might be less than 5 Burst nerds with the pockets deep enough to try to outbid each other to own a Kossoff guitar. Without the interest in that person, there is no significant price increase.
Now, do Ace or KISS have enough collector cache at the moment to warrant this price tag? I suppose somebody with seriously deep pockets is going to have a big enough hard on for this guitar that they MUST have it. So, how many billionaire KISS fans are there?
JJ this argument didn't exactly work on the Kossoff Burst.
Granted, while not exactly the same, this has to be an indication of sorts & sets a precedent of current sales................passed in at 150,000 Pounds Sterling.
It's all speculative, but I still think that a Burst owned by someone of fame, i.e. J.J's list for example, would fetch more than the average "Run-of-the-Mill" Bursts.
If Ace's were to sell, I don't think it would be anywhere close to 7 figures.
Thanks for the posts gang and
Your point that Ringo and Kossoff aren't exactly the same....is EXACTLY the point.
Ask anyone on the street who Ringo Starr is, or who the Beatles were, and 90% chance they get it right. Ask anyone on the street who Kossoff is, or Free, and I bet it's less than 2%. That notoriety is EVERYTHING. And unfortunately, with every passing decade, the number of people who care about Koss or Free is getting smaller at a far greater rate than the Zeps/Beatles of the world.
Even though Zep has done nothing since 1980 (or so), they have done a GREAT job of managing their legacy. And THAT is why Zep (as a business) is worth far more now than then. Same with Beatles, Elvis, etc.
Hell, Janis Joplin's old painted Porsche just sold in the millions this week. Not because it's a good car. If the guitar player for Big Brother and Holding Company were to auction off his beat to crap Porsche, it could be had for a song.
Jimmy's guitar has the cache of being played by an icon and having been THE guitar heard on most Classic Zepp tracks and Live performances. That's massive collectability cred.
The fact that many fans paid huge money to buy tickets to the reunion show in London
suggests should that guitar ever become available for sale, there are Mega Wealthy Fans who would pay well in excess of $1m to have it in their home. Fanatical Japanese collectors or big stores in Tokyo or Osaka would certainly pay well over $1m to secure it.
Only other that would rival JP's Burst is if ever Eric's " Beano" Burst re surfaced on the open market.
As good as the Peter Green / Gary Moore & the Kossoff guitars are......... Jimmy's #1 and Eric's Beano as Collectables are in another league altogether, in respect of both desirability and value.
This is spot on. This guitar is not associated with Ace other than he owned it at one point in his life. It's not like the three pickup one that shoots sparks out of it, now that is Ace's guitar in my opinion.
Page and Clapton's guitars would fetch a premium because they're Page and Calpton. Let's be honest here, the Green/Moore burst isn't that famous from an outsiders perspective. Sure LP nerds can sit around on a LP forum and talk about how awesome it is, but neither one of those guitar players come anywhere near the name recognition of Page or Clapton. I know it doesn't seem fair that just because Peter Green and Gary Moore aren't as famous their burst should be any less valuable. I'm just talking purely based on a premium that is put on an internment because of who's name is attached to it. It's not fair to even think that the Green burst price would mean anything if Page's #1 came to auction.
Like JJ said Ringo's drum set just crushed the estimate. Sure Jim Irsay needed it to compete his "set" but I would think anything associated with a major act like Led Zeppelin would fetch a premium. Just my two cents....
I could care less than Ace owned it . If I wanted the guitar it would be about THE guitar , not about that ugly ,foul mouth drunk.
Only a very small number of musicians are worth paying a premium for .
Beatles , Clapton , LZ , Stones .....after that it goes down hill really fast.
Ace doesn't even make my top 100 hundred of players . Probably 100 guys in ever big city in the world are better players and humans.
The reason you pay a lot for the Ace burst is because it has an unbelievably crazy top. Which pictures don't do justice. A lot of bursts look good in photos because the guitar is posed. Far fewer look great all the time. The Ace guitar is one of those (so I'm told, since I've never seen it in person).
When I saw Sandy in person, it was like seeing the Wizard of Oz in person. It's killer in photos, and almost fake in real-life. From every angle, the top explodes, and moves, and twists, and jiggles.
A video Al Romano sent me a few months back.
I thought about Beano as well, but given the fact that it was pinched, it's not likely we'll ever see it. Even if we did, can you imagine the legal rangling that would go on?
That's exactly what I was thinking. I never really associated him with this LP. Having said that though, I do think the fact that it belonged to him (I think he used it pretty much exclusively on one of his solo albums?) adds a bit of a premium above the price it would sell for had he not owned it however.
Thanks for the posts and
Rudi, you completely missed my point. Not enough people with deep pockets care about Paul Kossoff, unlike the Beatles or Zeppelin, to send the price over its normal value. As my next post indicated, there is no celebrity caché built into the price of this guitar, and to me, the price reflects a burst of this quality, regardless of owner.
As far as whether or not Clapton adds cache to a guitar, look at the price of the Crossroads 335 or Blackie, when thinking about what Beano might fetch. Beano would certainly go for more than your average Burst. Clapton is a household name. Paul Kossoff is not.
Yes from a Collector point of view, the three pup LP would be more valuable in relation to Ace I would feel.
The likelihood of the Beano ever surfacing is minimal to zero. It's out there somewhere or in someone's PRIVATE Collection. But hypothetically if it did and was clear to sell, it would fetch a premium.
Jimmy's guitar has a long history back to Joe Walsh and through the mega period of Zepp's reign. So much Classic Rock has been played with that guitar. And it has been Jimmy's main axe throughout that period and remains so. I think it stands alone at the top of the mountain of collectable LP's.
Would they fetch over $1m..............
1. SRV's gift from his wife - Lenny, not his #1, and a '65 composite, still sold for $623,000
2. George Harrison & John Lennon's - '64 SG used for the recording and touring of the Revolver Album, and used again by John on the White Album sold for $570,000 many years ago.
3. Eric Clapton's Circa 1939 Martin acoustic sold at auction for $791,500 many years ago also. That was just his acoustic !!!
4. Eric Clapton's - '64 ES 335 - sold at auction - $847,500
5. Eric's Blackie - Sold at auction - $959,500...... getting close to the cache of the Beano (even though it was a composite Strat) but Beano influenced a generation and changed what a LP / Marshall combination could sound like. That one guitar made Eric a superstar.
6. Bob Marley's Custom Made Washburn Hawk, classified as a National Asset by the Jamaican Government - Estimate of Value - $1.2 - $2m.
7. Jimi's SB '68 Strat , reportedly bought by Paul Allen in 1998 for $2m.
8. A White Strat - This guitar was sold in 2005 at auction in Qatar for $2.7m to raise funds for the Tsunami victims " Reach out to Asia" Charity - Signed by Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Eric Clapton, Brian May, Jimmy Page, David Gilmour, Jeff Beck, Pete Townsend, Mark Knopfler, Ray Davies, Liam Gallagher, Ronnie Wood, Tony Iommi, Angus and Malcolm Young, Paul McCartney, Sting, Ritchie Blackmore, Def Leppard and Brian Adams.
I think the value of the Beano LP and Jimmy's #1 can be valued in the $1m plus range quite safely.
Actually I was referring to the Kossoff Burst vs. Ace's Burst, not Ringo's Skins but I can see your point.
I don't consider them to be the "same" but they are similar & the Kossoff passing in at 150 Pounds Sterling sets a precedent to some extent for Ace's Burst; i.e. if the Kossoff did not sell you are not going to get 7 large figures for Aces' Burst.
Maybe I am totally wrong........................time will tell.
OK, cool I see what you're on about now.
Sorry not enough Caffeine.