'63 Les Paul Deluxe Value Estimate?

Discussion in 'Vintage SG' started by Brians Evil Twin, Aug 15, 2015.

  1. Brians Evil Twin

    Brians Evil Twin Poophoria Sōtō Zen V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    9,750
    Likes Received:
    22,911
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Below are some photos of a friend's '63 (I think) SG/LP Deluxe. He's not interested in selling, but we're curious about value for insurance purposes. Near as I can tell the serial number is 109348.

    He's had it since '69 and it appears to be all original except the case. He had been told by a shop that it had a headstock repair, but I think that was incorrect, although it may have had the neck repaired at the body and some of the neck binding is missing and it looks to have been sanded down in that spot. It might have had the neck refinished as well.

    It must be a "fretless wonder" because it has the lowest frets I've ever seen on any guitar. Some blacklight photots are included:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    5 people like this.
  2. Who

    Who Who is not here. Please leave a message.... Premium Member

    Messages:
    13,148
    Likes Received:
    20,642
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    $40. Cash. But I like you, I'll send $100 today. ;)
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. 69 Goldtop

    69 Goldtop Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,636
    Likes Received:
    1,903
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    late 69 would be the earliest with the volute.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Penny Dreadful

    Penny Dreadful Banned

    Messages:
    6,199
    Likes Received:
    6,215
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2008
    The only SG I would own! Custom, white with 3 buckers! :applause:

    Very nice!
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. kcvintageguitars

    kcvintageguitars Senior Member

    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    78
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    Cool guitar! Looks like a '63 but likely had some repairs and refinishing. It shouldn't have a volute. That volute doesn't look Gibson so I'd assume this was repaired at some point. I can't give a good evaluation without it in person but the main value is the pickups if they are untouched PAF's. Untouched PAF's are like $2k each... Then you have the rest of the guitar. It's worth some money.
     
    2 people like this.
  6. Duane_the_tub

    Duane_the_tub Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    1,206
    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    12-15 grand.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Brians Evil Twin

    Brians Evil Twin Poophoria Sōtō Zen V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    9,750
    Likes Received:
    22,911
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Ok, but you cover paypal fees, and no gifting!

    Yeah, the volute has me wondering, but I don't see any cracks under the blacklight. He said he bought it used in June '69 with the repairs.

    What makes it look like a 63 as opposed to other years? They are untouched PAFs, I looked it over pretty carefully and there doesn't appear to be any funny business with the wiring at all.

    Yeah, that's what the books say, but that's also for VG to Excellent condition. This one's pretty beat up. We know it's worth at least $6k, but I'm thinking he should insure it for $12k.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Kevin James

    Kevin James V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    1,508
    Likes Received:
    1,146
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Bingo. I agree, 1963 based on features and serial number with definite repairs to the heel and headstock (with added volute) and finish work. Looks like a great player :thumb:
     
    2 people like this.
  9. Flogger59

    Flogger59 Senior Member

    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    84
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    I would say a 63 body with a 69 neck. You cannot add a volute without grafting on wood. Neck replacement is my bet.
     
  10. kcvintageguitars

    kcvintageguitars Senior Member

    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    78
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    In my opinion, it looks like a '63 with headstock repair (added volute), heel repair, refinishing (which would hide any grafting etc)... Nut width should be 1-11/16" which it appears to be. Also, the neck joint looks '63.
     
  11. Brians Evil Twin

    Brians Evil Twin Poophoria Sōtō Zen V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    9,750
    Likes Received:
    22,911
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Thanks. Curious about the pickguard - it doesn't quite fit - original or a replacement?
     
  12. Sixstring63

    Sixstring63 Senior Member

    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Yep, was just thinking the same thing once I looked at all the photos.
     
  13. eric ernest

    eric ernest V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    1,613
    Likes Received:
    4,274
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2007
    Looks like a re-neck.

    Is the finish on the body twice as thick as the neck? Sometimes they shot OVER the original body finish during a re-neck.

    There does look like an extra layer of paint OVER control cavity wall area.

    Better photos of the neck pickup cavity may shed light on the issues.
     
    2 people like this.
  14. Dolebludger

    Dolebludger Premium Member

    Messages:
    11,821
    Likes Received:
    9,550
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Some things I noticed. If it is a '63, I believe it would originally have had Kluson (not Grover) tuners. These Grovers are obviously aftermarket tuners. But if somebody had merely switched out the tuners in this manner, there would be an extra hole in the headstock at each tuner for the extra screw required for the Klusons. But there aren't any extra holes that I can see. So the neck (whatever year it is) has been refinished. Also, If I am interpreting the pics correctly, the neck/body joint has clearly been repaired -- and not very professionally. It doesn't even look like the neck fits the body, which supports the post that says it is a '69 or later neck. I believe the fact that it does have PAF pups indicates the body is an early '63, because I think later that year Gibson switched to patent number pups. And if the body is an early '63, the guitar probably would have had a side-pull trem and not a Maestro. You can check on that by removing the Maestro and checking for evidence of extra holes for the side-pull. You can also check the SN with Gibson to see what it indicates. But given the fact that this may not be the original neck, that info may not be worth much. The pick guard is not original and doesn't quite fit, and appears to be too white to be original. If you removed the pick guard, you may find evidence of the screw holes for the original guard, and this may tell you something about the year of the body.

    Bottom line, it gives me no pleasure to say that the value of the guitar may well be less than the value of the pups, if they were removed and sold separately.
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. Brians Evil Twin

    Brians Evil Twin Poophoria Sōtō Zen V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    9,750
    Likes Received:
    22,911
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Thanks Eric & Dole. Eric's re-neck theory would explain the volute and Grovers.

    I looks like we have to do a little more dissecting to get to the bottom of it. Next time he brings it over we'll remove the Maestro and pickguard and take better shots of the tenon area.

    It's pretty obvious that the neck joint was messed with, there should be a little shelf there and it's been sanded down. And it's clear that at least the neck has been repainted so that would mean a high probability that the entire guitar was refinished.

    The vintage value is of little importance to my friend as it has high sentimental value and he's not selling, but for insurance purposes, I think $12-15k is about right.
     

Share This Page