5E3 Build, or so it begins.

Discussion in 'The Squawk Box' started by chupe442, Feb 20, 2018.

  1. chupe442

    chupe442 Confused as ever..... Premium Member

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    Question regarding "lacquering" tweed.. Amber Shellac or Lacquer? Seems the amber shellac broken down to approximate 50/50 seems to be the method used most. Thoughts?
     
  2. Leña_Costoso

    Leña_Costoso Senior Member

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    Some folks use Zinsser Amber Shellac, with lacquer over it.

    Why? I dunno. No real tweed Fender I ever saw looked like that at all. Zinsser has a distinctive "orange-amber" color.

    Clear lacquer is the real McCoy*

    The "tweed" made these days sometimes takes on a nearly greenish hue in the lighter stripes. I have a Fender case for a Tele 52 RI that is distinctively "green". It got a coat of some honey colored Minwax polyurethane I had floating around, doesn't look quite as green now.

    Lacquer can be tinted, use a light tint. Mohawk has colors that work in lacquer. Brush on, thinned a bit. Two or three coats. Sand down very lightly between coats. Last coat can be clear satin, no sanding afterward.

    I'm sure some of the guys in the Luthier section can recommend a lacquer that "ambers" nicely. In a pinch, ReRanch neck amber.

    Or just use Zinsser amber shellac and get what you get. It doesn't look bad, just not original.

    A "colored" tweed amp is like half a relic treatment, to me. It has the "aging" of the color, but how about all the scuffs and rips and threadbare corners?

    Last few I did were done in Zinsser, because that's what the buyers expected. Amber color for green paper... go figure!

    [​IMG] Alternate real McCoy
     
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  3. Slater529

    Slater529 Premium Member

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    After a lot of research (on another forum), I went with several coats of brushed-on Minwax Polyshade in Honey Pine, followed by Minwax Clear Satin Polyurethane Aerosol. I'm very happy with the way it turned out!

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Pappy58

    Pappy58 Senior Member

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    IMG_0572.jpg Just finished the Zinnser on mine...3 Coats 50/50he short answer is I like the aged color but not beat up look. :)
     
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  5. chupe442

    chupe442 Confused as ever..... Premium Member

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    @Leña_Costoso - I am with Pappy in liking the aged color but not the beat up relic. But I get what your saying.

    @Pappy58 - You didnt remove the screen and handle? I would have made a mess of that... It looks great!! Are you going to lacquer/poly it then to protect it? The one thing I am coming to understand is the process is not done with just the shellac. It still needs to be sealed, then lacquered or poly'd to protect it. Even though the amp will live in my studio, I know that first tiny scuff will have me regretting not doing those last couple of steps.

    @Slater529 - Wow, that is sexy.. I very well may go this route with something between that honey and the amber shellac and use a "rub on" poly. The Minwax "rub on" is what I use a lot a on furniture rehab protects and have great luck with. Did you break down the staining with anything or just straight out of the can?
     
  6. Slater529

    Slater529 Premium Member

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  7. chupe442

    chupe442 Confused as ever..... Premium Member

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    Is that an all in one poly and stain? If so, why did you clear over it? Or was the clear just a 3rd coat and did not want darken the coloring?
     
  8. Slater529

    Slater529 Premium Member

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    IMG_1046.JPG


    Yes, it's the 1-step stain and finish with the clear satin Polyurethane spray on top for added protection. The clear was probably overkill, but since it was so easy to apply I just figured 'why not'... can't hurt!
     
  9. chupe442

    chupe442 Confused as ever..... Premium Member

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    That is what I am looking for, Thanks! :cheers:
     
  10. Pappy58

    Pappy58 Senior Member

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    The handle was riveted and so had to be taped. Good thing with shellac is it cleans up easily if you slop a little. I havn't decided whether to spray some lacquer on her. I did on my bandmaster but lots of folks say a few coats of shellac is all you need. I may leave it off for now you really can't tell much difference when they are next to each other. The Bandmaster is a little smoother with the lacquer.

    Never been a fan of using poly's on these but thats just me being old I suspect. I certainly use it on things that will be out in the weather and minwax makes a wonderful product!
    :cheers2:
     
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  11. chupe442

    chupe442 Confused as ever..... Premium Member

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    First coat on. Went with the Varethane golden pecan. Minwax was either very light or very dark as far as I wanted go with. So far this is the color I had in my mind for what I wanted. 1A45154A-6A51-4D54-984A-8E78EDE9F87B.jpeg DFA3A7F0-B376-4B2E-BC5A-9F432CB4C296.jpeg 1991F484-916B-412A-B35F-ECC8E248CFF6.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
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  12. Slater529

    Slater529 Premium Member

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    That looks very close to the Minwax Honey Pine... maybe just a RCH darker?
     
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  13. Leña_Costoso

    Leña_Costoso Senior Member

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    well.... the next cabinet project will be a 2-tone. Something like red ends and cream top/front/back/bottom. Think "saddle shoe".

    The great thing... there's room in the palette for a whole lot of tastes.
     
  14. chupe442

    chupe442 Confused as ever..... Premium Member

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    This is a bit more amber than the honey for sure, at least by the samples. The next step in the Minwax series was straight Pecan, and that was way to much color. This is a great compromise. I was almost sold on the Honey with yours but that is just not what I had in my mind for this build.
     
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  15. chupe442

    chupe442 Confused as ever..... Premium Member

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    Almost did something like that with this one. The amp in my avatar is my 5F2 and 2x10 cab. It is covered in red gator skin vinyl. The palette was pushed for that one..
     
  16. Pappy58

    Pappy58 Senior Member

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    Havn't RCH in a coons age! Love it! :applause:
     
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  17. Pappy58

    Pappy58 Senior Member

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    Lookin' Good!
     
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  18. chupe442

    chupe442 Confused as ever..... Premium Member

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    2 coats of Varathane Golden Pecan and one coat of Minwax Satin Clear. No regrets with this color choice. Very happy with it. image.jpg image.jpg
     
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  19. Leña_Costoso

    Leña_Costoso Senior Member

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    nice!
     
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  20. The Ballzz

    The Ballzz Senior Member

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    On mine that I built in a MOJO cabinet, about a year and a half back, I used a 50/50 mix of Zinsser amber and clear. I was pleased.

    IMG_1121.JPG
    IMG_1124.JPG



    I made my own turret board, using the MOJO eyelet board as a general template. It was a bit tight around the input jacks, but I got inventive!


    IMG_1122.JPG
    IMG_1125.JPG


    You should bear in mind that not all 5Y3 rectifiers are created equal. Most of the current production units (Sovtek & JJ) will end up giving considerably higher voltage than you likely want! Good idea to find some NOS or good used pieces (they're fairly inexpensive) to dial in your voltages. While I genearlly went off of the MOJO schematic, I also referred to the original Fender, as well as the more modern Fender '57, to make a couple safety upgrades. Mine is likely due for a checkup, so given that you're pretty much at the beginning of the assembly journey, I'll open mine up for a reminder of a few tips for you. I highly suggest that you start with all stock, (except for the safety improvements, of course) instead of doing any of the "mods" suggested over the internest! I do recall that my final B+ seemed pretty critical to the overall tone and character of the amp. a difference of 15-20 volts was pretty dramatic!

    I too went with the ClassicTone PT, but went with the 078 instead of the 021, just in case. I could have kept it all neater, if not for the extra wires, as I used the 355-0-355 taps anyway! I opted for the multi-tap secondary output transformer from MOJO. This amp absolutely crushes!

    I also used the MOJO small parts kit and I believe the only part I swapped out was one of the dropping resistor for a higher wattage rated on than came with the kit. I believe the MOJO kit had either 1/2 or 1 watt, and I opted for 2 watt. I think I also added screen resistors on the 6V6s that weren't specced on the schematics, though the "Fender '57" showed 470Ω and the originals had none, I split the difference at 200Ω or 220Ω

    A few useful schematics, in addition to the MOJO:

    https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2325/2729/files/Deluxe-5E3-schematic.pdf?5926397210715640943

    57_Deluxe_jpeg.jpg

    I used a center tap for the heaters, instead of the derived "pseudo" center tap.

    As evidenced by this not being your first build, this amp building thing can be quite addictive!

    Again, I'll open it up tonite and share some voltages!

    Happy Building!
    Gene
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
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