5E3 Build, or so it begins.

Discussion in 'The Squawk Box' started by chupe442, Feb 20, 2018.

  1. chupe442

    chupe442 Confused as ever..... Premium Member

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    Well the itch will be scratched (and wife approved).

    After some deep thoughts and hangovers, I am diving into a new build. At first I was going to source my own parts and stay within a budget but it seems that regardless, its going to cost about the same however I want to go about it. Its just whether I want to spend the money all at once or spread it out and get what I want from who I want.

    Sourcing the small parts individually does not save enough for the difference if I ordered something wrong and the headache to find that out down the road. (second build for me, first was a 5f2 that is AWESOME!) That said, MojoTone seems to have as good as reputation as anyone else's for about the same money. I thought about a BootHill kit but not being able to click and order is frustrating to me for some reason. I don't want to wait and call during business hours or pay more for the Ebay sale. Chassis will be from Mojo which seems as compatible price wise as anyone else from what I can find. I have seen that Mojotone's transformers can be a little sketchy but that does not mean that Mercury's really merit the money difference. That said I will more than likely go with the ClassicTone tranny's. I have not seen any bad reviews on them and the prices direct are not too bad.

    Speaker will more than likely be WGS (to be determined) for the money, just great speakers. Not full locked on this, just my intentions at this time.

    Tubes. To be determined.

    Cabinet I am having issues with.. Not sure I want to build my own to spec and tweed/lacquer it or just buy one and be done.. In all, its really the only place to save money on the build without losing quality. Wood, glue, tweed, and lacquer can be had well under the 250.00 range for one done already. I can build the cabinet, the issue is just if I really want to.

    Small parts and chassis is officially ordered. I am committed..
     
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  2. Cjsinla

    Cjsinla Senior Member

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    A 5e3 was my first build, it started life as a Tube Depot kit and trannies. It now has a Mojotone small parts kit and board. Mojotone will not let you down, I built their 5f1. For my 5e3 I ended using a 30 watt Weber alnico speaker designed for later breakup and tighter bass. The amp can still get really ragged with everything on 10 and I get decent amounts of pretty clean overhead as well. Good luck with your build and I’m sure that you’ll have plenty of fun along the way.

    BTW my kit came with ClassicTone iron, no problem so far.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
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  3. chupe442

    chupe442 Confused as ever..... Premium Member

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    If Tube Depot didn't have that PCB board, I would have probably just gone with them. There is a lot of torment with lookin all of this up. My 5F2 build was pretty much all sourced through Tube Depot but for the Tranny's as well if I remember right. The Classic Tones just seem to have a solid reputation without being too costly. Some distributers seem to have "conflicting" ClassicTone models that they claim is best for the 5E3. The 40-18021 and the 40-18016. The 21 is to spec (I believe) but said to run hotter on the plate to where the 16 is better. Are they both purely interchangeable and in the end would just be feeding different voltages at the end of the build? Suggestions??
     
  4. Cjsinla

    Cjsinla Senior Member

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    My kit came with the 40-18017. Not sure what the difference is. I originally built mine with the pcb because of inexperience. I put the Mojotone board in because I thought that I messed up the pcb.

    2BA0D911-EE19-4B19-B4EC-A560DD09EEE9.jpeg
     
  5. chupe442

    chupe442 Confused as ever..... Premium Member

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    The 18017 is the dual input 120/240 to where the 18016 is just the 120v input. Same lower voltage out put (660v). the 18021 is higher output (710v). Not sure if the lower output is a "mod" for more controlled bass output for a cheaper speaker to be utilized or not. Seems somewhere I read that and perhaps twisting that definition a bit in the process. I think the capacitors all stay the same as well for either transformers but hopefully someone will chime in to clear this up for me. It may be one of those "in audible" differences and the cheaper tranny is used because its cheaper on the kit price..
     
  6. Cjsinla

    Cjsinla Senior Member

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    You’re right about the different input choices. I just checked the manual and it shows the different wiring options for 120 and 240 volt inputs. I’m not sure how that effects bass response. The Jensen MOD speaker they provided is made to emphasize bass and was overkill IMO.
     
  7. chupe442

    chupe442 Confused as ever..... Premium Member

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    Input voltage doesn't. However the difference in the secondary does. I just don't know in what way.
     
  8. Pappy58

    Pappy58 Senior Member

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    Can't say I'm familiar with those units, I am satisfied with the mojotone PT's and use them for the most part. I also prefer Mojotone for Chassis, boxes etc.

    355-0-355 is the standard secondary voltage per spec. ...so the 710 is you're bogey imo. However theories abound that todays grid @125vac avg drives the secondary output too high and adds to the low freq flubber. Personally I believe speaker selection is probably more important to that. However, some folks have mentioned "Voltage Adjusted" transformers are out there that are supposed in compensate for this, so maybe thats what that 660v model is?

    I am in the final stage of my first first 5E3 build and plan to use a variac and test this theory somewhat. Good luckwithnyour build.
    :cheers:
     
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  9. chupe442

    chupe442 Confused as ever..... Premium Member

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    Thanks Pappy.
     
  10. Slater529

    Slater529 Premium Member

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    Okay, hold on here... You're right that 355-0-355 is the secondary voltage spec. But, the "0" means the transformer has a grounded 0 volt center tap. The transformer needs to put out +355 volts on one side of the output, while simultaneously putting out -355 volts on the other side... That equals 710 VAC RMS which IS the correct output. Nothing "bogey" about that!

    The Classic Tone 18021 Power Transformer was supposedly reverse engineered to be as close as possible to a vintage 5e3 output transformer. That's why I chose it for my 5e3 build.
     
  11. Pappy58

    Pappy58 Senior Member

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    You misunderstood my context of "Bogey" e.g. it's the correct one! :thumb:
     
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  12. Pappy58

    Pappy58 Senior Member

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    Just to add in that @Cjsinia has been keen on speaker selection being most affecting of all the variables, and I do agree. I dont believe that minor fluctuation of input voltage is going to produce much audible difference. :cheers:
     
  13. Slater529

    Slater529 Premium Member

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    So sorry! I'm ex Air Force... to me a bogey is a bad guy! :laugh2:
     
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  14. Leña_Costoso

    Leña_Costoso Senior Member

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    The bigger difference is 50cycle vs 60cycle. A 50cycle transformer has more iron, to handle the lower frequency. Because of that, when run on 60cycles its got more "oomph", or better magnetics, which accounts for tighter bass (less sag).
     
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  15. Cjsinla

    Cjsinla Senior Member

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    Right but you’re saying that 240 runs on 50 cycles, right?
     
  16. Leña_Costoso

    Leña_Costoso Senior Member

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    It doesn't have to. Usually 50 cycle is like 200 Volt or 100 volt. Weird European stuff. I think Japan is 100 volt 50 cycle as well. There's some places in the Caribbean that are 200 volt and 50 cycle too.

    The Dual winding primary is what makes it 115 / 230. That doesn't have too much to do with the magnetics of the circuit.
     
  17. chupe442

    chupe442 Confused as ever..... Premium Member

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    So, what is the benefit of 18016 (CT Tranny) putting 660v volts out in comparison to the 18021 putting 710v?
     
  18. Pappy58

    Pappy58 Senior Member

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    ...I'm hip, it's "the one you're after" . ....:slash:
     
  19. Pappy58

    Pappy58 Senior Member

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    On the ClassicTone website they claim a "more conservative 660v"..so again it seems based on previous thread fodder some folks believe lowering the secondary compensates for hotter primary? :dunno:

    They also have a 18078 which has both output options and multiple input options. Seems if you really wanted to experiment that would be the one.
    :cheers:
     
  20. chupe442

    chupe442 Confused as ever..... Premium Member

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    Ah! The '78 would be cool just for that "trial-of" thought. In reality, I won't open it back up once its done. Its also going to have a few extra wires just for the primary options that are going to clutter things up as well. More than likely go with the '21 since it is original specs and move on. If there was a clear reason for either being so much better, It would be easier to find the info. Its not, so it must not be a big deal.
     

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