50's Wiring with Push/Pull Coil Split

Discussion in 'Tonefreaks' started by sirep, Aug 24, 2014.

  1. sirep

    sirep Junior Member

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    I was looking for some help with a wiring diagram for a 50's wiring setup with push/pull coil splits. I have searched the interwebs with no luck, so here I am!

    I have attached a SD wiring diagram for a modern setup with what I believe to be push/pull coil splits. I could be wrong; it could be a diagram for a different setup. I know how to work a soldering iron, and have replaced electronics in guitars before, but I lack "knowing" what I am doing. Basically, the circle goes in the circle hole and the square goes in the square hole type of thing of following diagrams.

    I am wondering what I would need to do to switch it to a 50's wiring setup? Would I treat the bottom pot on the push/pull as a standard pot and switch the leads needed for the 50's setup?

    Also, I have noticed in a lot of wiring diagrams that the cap is placed between the volume pot and the tone pot. In others, like the SD diagram I have attached, it has the cap going from tone to ground. Is there a difference between the two? Does it affect the tone at all?

    If I go off of the wiring diagram I posted, would I just switch what lugs the wires go to on the pots rather than using caps as in other diagrams?

    Thanks!
     

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  2. David Collins

    David Collins Senior Member

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    Yup. All you have to do is move the wires leading to the tone pots over to the middle lug of the volume pots, and Bob's your uncle.
     
  3. sirep

    sirep Junior Member

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    I had to google that. Never heard that before :)

    Will it matter if I place the cap between the volume and tone pots compared to placing it tone to ground like in the diagram? Is one recommended over the other?
     
  4. David Collins

    David Collins Senior Member

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    Either way will work. Before or after, it's kind of like addition and multiplication - rearrange the series and the results still come out the same.

    The only change I might make to that drawing would be how the coils are split. The way they have that drawn it appears you would be left with two coils of the same polarity in split modes. When splitting both coils I prefer arrangements which will cut opposite polarity coils, so that you can still get some hum canceling in the middle position when both coils are split. Simplest way to do this is run the black and green together to the switch on one of the pickups, then white to ground and red to the respective colume lug.
     
  5. sirep

    sirep Junior Member

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    You had my attention, now you have my curiosity. May I bug you to explain the best way to split the coils and keep the hum-canceling properties of the pickups?
     
  6. David Collins

    David Collins Senior Member

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    I was probably editing my comment with the answer while you were typing your question. Sorry about that.

    There's the way described in the (edited) post above, or you could simply disconnect the push/pull switch tab that the drawing shows to ground, and instead connect it to the upper lug (black wire) of the volume pot. The key point is that you only do this on one of the two pickups. This way, you can still get some decent degree of hum canceling with both pickups split when you're in the middle position. As drawn in their diagram, you would not get any hum canceling effect in the middle with both pickups split.
     
  7. sirep

    sirep Junior Member

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    No apology needed! I was going off email notifications on my phone without reading the posts again. For that, I am sorry! :)

    Thank you for your input, it is greatly appreciated! You have definitely cleared quite a bit up for me and steered me in the right direction.

    Cheers! :)
     
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  8. sirep

    sirep Junior Member

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    OK. I modified the diagram to your first example. I used the neck pickup for the changes made. Does it all seem copacetic?
     

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  9. David Collins

    David Collins Senior Member

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    Sorry for not describing it better - that's not the "switch" I was referring to, but rather the push/pull switch on the back of the pot.

    Solder the black and green to the push/pull tab where the red/white was stock, then run white to ground where the green was, and red to the volume lug where the black wire originally went.
     
  10. Mookakian

    Mookakian Senior Member

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    .
     

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  11. johnh

    johnh Senior Member

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    Nice drawing, but I think there are a couple of hairs on that one:
    Join all grounds together
    swap red and black at the switch

    To get humcancelling in the mid setting with coil splits, assuming two similar SD pickups (ie, place them face to face, screw to screw and they repel):

    On one pickup, swap red with black, swap green with white

    If they are not Seymour Duncan, need to check and confirm wiring colours
     
  12. sirep

    sirep Junior Member

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    I will be using Seymour Duncans in both positions. I do not have braided wire. I will just be using cloth covered push-back wire. I have a bit of that lying around from an old upgrade - I am on a budget right now :) Is there a preference to which coil to use when splitting the pickup (slug vs screw)?

    I was wondering if it made a difference between pickup manufacturers. I am attaching a picture (which people who do this stuff regularly probably already know) of the different conductors in the different humbuckers. Probably superfluous, but oh well.

    I will try to draw up a new diagram this evening and get it posted to see what you guys think. Thanks to Mookakian for taking the initiative and helping out with a diagram!
     

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  13. sirep

    sirep Junior Member

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    So I should turn one of the humbuckers around in its housing ring (so both coils with screws are close together, or vice versa with the slug coils)?

    EDIT: OK...never mind this. The slug coils already face each other.
     
  14. David Collins

    David Collins Senior Member

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    A much simpler way of describing what I was trying to communicate. Thanks!
     
  15. Mookakian

    Mookakian Senior Member

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    This will work fine for a set of duncans, different pickups have different color coding and if you use other pickups the colors may need to change but that diagram will work just fine for the SDuncan's, no need to put the bridge pickup in backwards though...

    Here you go, pot grounds included and pickup in the right way:


    [​IMG]
     

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  16. sirep

    sirep Junior Member

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    Should I swap red with black and green with white on one of the pickups if they are Seymour Duncan? Or is the diagram Mookakian drew up good to go?

    Also, beginner question here, going off of Mookakian's diagram do I solder the green to bare and shrink tube, or do I take them to the ground connection on the back of the pot? I noticed in the original SD diagram they go to the pots.

    I wanted to say again that I really appreciate everybody's input here! Like I said, I lack knowing what I'm really doing with all of this. I just follow diagrams and work the soldering iron! :thumb:
     
  17. Mookakian

    Mookakian Senior Member

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    Just run as the diagram is to start, this will give standard coil splitting with hum cancelling.

    As for the question about the green and white...the green and white are soldered together and then grounded to the back of your pot, that little triangle represents grounding in a wiring schematic, if you ever see that it means ground the wire/s you find with a triangle on the end (a little lesson I wanted to throw in, teach a man to fish... ;) In bucker mode...The Green wire is the end of both your coils and that bare wire is your pickup shielding and they need to be grounded, when you pull the pot up the white wire is now the end of the coil (grounded) so one coil is completely taken out :) Thats how the coil split works!

    (swapping the series wires as suggested earlier will split to the opposite coil compared to the standard method... standard your bridge screw coil is the active coil when split, the other way means the slug coil of the bridge will be the active coil when split, some guys prefer this as the tone is less mosquito like and a little sweeter due to the vibrations the slug coil will see, you will need to do this to both pickups if you want this with hum cancelling in the middle position)

    unplugged...pluck your guitar at the bridge then pluck it closer to the neck, this will give an idea of how that sweeter tone works by using the bridge slug coil, plucking near the bridge will give a thinner sound, near the neck its thicker/sweeter...so if the active coil is closer to the neck, the tone is a little sweeter/full ;)

    If you have any other questions fire away, happy to help
     
  18. Mookakian

    Mookakian Senior Member

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    Here is a Duncan I took apart to show what wires go where to help get a visual on wiring, its a lot to take in so do not be worried if its all a bit much, it will come to you one day with tips like these:

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    For now, just wire it up as per the diagram I posted, if you want to run the other method of coil splitting (slug coil on bridge is the active coil) let me know



    .
     

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  19. sirep

    sirep Junior Member

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    So would the slug coil on the bridge and the screw coil on the neck be recommended for a less harsh sound? Or both slug coils?

    I'm thinking I would like to go the slug coil route for the bridge pup. That sounds pretty interesting.

    Sorry to be a pain!
     
  20. sirep

    sirep Junior Member

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    I tried modding your diagram to what David and John were talking about (switching red with black and white with green). Does it seem to be in order? Sorry about the crudeness of the edit!

    If I don't use braided wire from the toggle switch to the output jack, would twisting two wires work for shielding? I have four conductor shielded wire lying around as well that could be used. Maybe I can scrounge up money for the braided kind...
     

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