3d carved top, I need some opinion

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by GooCart, Jan 13, 2009.

  1. thewizardofaz

    thewizardofaz Senior Member

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    I happened unto this thread pretty late. But, I do want to thank all those whose initiative and hard work went into a "dummy" :) Seriously, great work. I do have a question. Has anyone ever thought of making a mold of the top and casting it into a solid for use as the base? Dental molding material, or just plain vacu-forming would work very well to make the mold. You then have your choice of material to mix and pour into the mold. Just curious. Again, great, great work.
     
  2. EtriX

    EtriX Senior Member

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    nice work there goocart. making guitars in 3d is always "a bit of a hassle". I did my SG g-400 when I was in high school (gymnasiet) in inventor. Man it was hard. But I think it's better to build them in cad software then graphic 3d such as maya or 3ds since cad software is more reliable with measurements :D
    Anyhow this is extraordinary work... Especially if it will get cnc:ed since I actually can get a blank body and neck here in Sweden and it won't be crap... atleast until I have tools to make my own :D
    Looking forward to seeing this completed
     
  3. Engraved Guitars

    Engraved Guitars Member

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    Excellent work. That is one of the most dificult surfaces that i came across to.
    Rhino is one of the best softwares for that. I used an hybrid software to do my model.

    :applause:
     

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  4. GooCart

    GooCart V.I.P. Member

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    Another swede here at the luthiers corner, cool.

    The file is in use for the Eastern Maple Carved Tops, look at Scott, ex-nihilo's build.
    About the software, I don't know if you can say that one is better than the other, the old nurbs contra polys discussion. I've seen some amazing stuff modeled in Maya and 3D studio, but in my profession we use nurb modellers such as Alias and Rhino for free form modeling and for solid modeling/ engineering we use SolidWorks.
     
  5. ExNihilo

    ExNihilo Senior Member

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    And I have used Blender for 3d work for years.... And it's FREE!
     
  6. BlackBones

    BlackBones Member

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    Great thread.
    Sorry, I know this is going a long way back now, but what neck neck angle and pick up plane angle did you go with on your final model Goocart?
    Is that the version used by Tom for the pre carved tops?
    Also, how do you calculate the pick up plane angle for any given neck angle?
    Thanks
     
  7. GooCart

    GooCart V.I.P. Member

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    Hey BlackBones,
    Yeah, this is the version used for the Eastern Maple Carved Tops.
    I'm by no mean a luthier and before I started to build the LP last summer I had absolutely no clue about the neck plane/ pickup plane ratio, but during the time I've got a lot of input from forum members and from other sources that I've used on the carved top and I think that the EMC-Top has a pretty fine neck/ pickup plane relation.
     
  8. MRJ5

    MRJ5 Premium Member

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    John Catto explains this in post #17 of this thread. John has done much research on the '59/'60s top carves.
     
  9. BlackBones

    BlackBones Member

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    Thanks guys.
    I was pretty much specifically referring to John Catto's post mentioned above.
    Goocart said he had taken John's advice into acount , and also that he had been given relative figures for a 3.5 degree neck angle, just wondered what he went with in the end.
    Sorry If I'm being dense. I've read this thread and others again and again to try to get my head around these first two cuts. I try to work things out for myself before asking, but to my mind if these are wrong the the final position of the bridge will also be wrong and I'd like to get mine as low as possible.
    I may well be reading and thinking about fractions of degrees too much and not enough time working??
     
  10. Ole'Lefty

    Ole'Lefty Premium Member

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    Unless Magnus or Tom say otherwise, using my Master(dummy) I was planning on 4 degrees. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have most often seen from 4 to 4.4 degrees recommended.O'L
     
  11. GooCart

    GooCart V.I.P. Member

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    Hi BlackBone,
    If I remember it right we chose a 4,4 neck angle in the end, but I cant remember the exact pup plane angle, I don't have the file here at home. But it's not rocket science, I'd say that it's quite easy to measure what angle you need for a proper bride setup. I was very satisfied when I saw the pics of the bridge setup on Scott's replica.
    However, it's not just the angle ratio that determinate the bridge spacing. The intersection of the pup/neck plane is as critical.

    In the EMC-top the intersection is located right between the neck pup cavity and the end of the fret board. If you move the intersection further south you'll end up with a higher top and less space for the bridge.

    I'm not sure I understand what I'm writing my self here, could I try to take it in Swedish:p
     
  12. BlackBones

    BlackBones Member

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    Hi Ole Lefty, your a bit of a minor celebrity on my laptop the amount of your posts i've read in the last few months.
    As another perspective on my question then, were abouts height wise does your bridge end up with a top cut from Tom/Magnus"s dummy?
    I'd also love to buy one of their tops for my future grail build but I'd like to Know the bridge wasn't going to end up swinging in the breeze, so as to speak, on that.
    I don't mean to sound psycho and obsessive and I'm not trying to question the product or designer/manufacturers?gurus in any way at all (its their fault/due to their inspiration that i'm even thinking about the best way to build a les paul and not just assuming that historics are the best there can be.) but those spindly little studs can't be good for transferring vibration and on my ultimate guitar the shorter they are the better.
     
  13. BlackBones

    BlackBones Member

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    Hi Goocart,
    By all means go swedish, I won't understand it any better though.
    I'm thinking about doing a 2d scale drawing to work this out.
    Are your blend and bridge always at 80.51 and 184.46 respectively? regardless of the angles.
     
  14. Ole'Lefty

    Ole'Lefty Premium Member

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    "Lately I've Been Runnin' on Faith." I hope to cut my first from the master this week. Table did not get done yet. If you check the StewMac plans you will be safe. Their contour was not as accurate as the Magnus, but the body and neck stuff is good. Recall that the thickness of the "sub-body" as I call it, is a factor too. It all has to add up.

    As for ABR bridges, there is a raging debate-"are 6-32 threaded posts sunk as deeply as possible superior to the Nashville which uses bushings?" I have two Classics-an Antique 2007 and a 2001. 2007 has Nashville;2001 has ABR-1. Comparison is complicated a bit because the 2007 is all mahogany-I don't find the 2001 to be truly different in quality of response-it has the two "wow" factors, ABR and maple. They both are very good guitars-I may have to choose soon-it will be difficult.Also, I play so poorly that I don't push any guitar to its ragged edge.

    I am transfering a lot of broad experience to Les Pauls-so, I am not an LP specific build expert by any means.O'L
     
  15. Ole'Lefty

    Ole'Lefty Premium Member

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    And, since a screwed up neck costs less, that is where I will adjust my angle.o'l
     
  16. GooCart

    GooCart V.I.P. Member

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    Here is the angles we chose for the top.
    Neck plane: 4.4°
    Pickup plane: 1.21°
     
  17. BlackBones

    BlackBones Member

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    Thanks again guys.
    I'm sure when I stop doing the thinking and start doing the doing everything will work itself out.
     
  18. Pvogtcharlotte

    Pvogtcharlotte Junior Member

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    Magnus,
    I'm impressed with your images. Have you machined any yet? Over the past year or so, I have gone through the same exercise for a PRS neck and body. Having built several actual parts now, I can appreciate the grueling prototyping process. I'll bet we have fought many of the same problems. If you have made parts, how about we trade some pictures?
    Best Regards,
    Paul Vogt,
    Charlotte, NC
     

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  19. alk-3

    alk-3 MLP Sponsor

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    We've been machining them for some time now. Check out this site for details, and a few pictures. There aren't too many available at the moment, but I have 24 new tops at the cnc shop that should make their way to the site in short order.
     
  20. nanchy

    nanchy Junior Member

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    What do yo think about this carve?

    I see what is wrong, but i want more opinions
     

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