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Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by lawrev, Aug 28, 2017.
What do you think of the Bartlett Retrospecs Vic? Other than the very expensive price?
I haven't played one, But I did own an LP Body that was built by Bartlett, and it was a high quality build. I was going to build my own, but I couldn't find a neck, and I was reasonably unsure how to get everything spot on, so I sold it.
That said; I would love to play one....but yea they are pricey, but that's hand built....the guy doesn't build a shabby piece....
its when something goes into mass production and bean counters want to start cutting corners.....
I stopped watching that Video at 3:00 minutes. It is simply tragic. These mistakes should never happen, regardless of price.
If Gibson can't get this basic stuff right then what can you say.
All the comments about skilled workers don't hold up when you see mistakes like this.
It would be interesting to see what drives these mistakes, is it top down or bottom up?
I could never live with a HS like that Vic. They need to change it to a better design.
That's a good question....
I work at a major car manufacturer, I watch new cars come right off the line and go straight to repair....I get some things go wrong and a car has a lot of parts that can be screwed up from the suppliers....
What I see is a top down kind of failure here....the supervisor "culture" is way too authoritive ...from the top down....these jr supervisors are put under a lot of strain to make their numbers work and departments are charged against one another,,,Charged $... its like this from plant to plant on down to the individual departments....its crazy
Gibson.....I suspect top down, over authoritive, gimmie numbers, not excuses. I get that for business...I get that for growing fiscally....what I don't get is; why punish Everyone....and make work a miserable place...therefore pride in product goes right out the window....not long before pissed off employees start throwing guitars into the cases.....whoops ...missed....
Know what I saw at Heritage? Happy people, making awesome guitars....they rotate stations, Like Gibson did in the old days....Oh...Debbie's sick today...or has appointment? ...I'll do her sanding today...I'll catch up with binding later or tomorrow....for example...
Grant it there aren't many employees there and that sort of stuff is possible. I would work there in a second....in fact i'll retire from Nursing right now....Hand me that sandpaper over there......Or that glue brush and clamps....
IMHO that guy was a little too judgmental...I commented on his video.....nothing is ever perfect.....He should go and get it set up first...then see what happens...(I also told him to get a used historic) he has the $$ to drop into a nice R7, most of those issues will probably go away.
Custom Shop still does nice work....Out of all the ones I owned only one had to go back to Gibson and they were good enough to let me pick a top and OK the color...so I was a Happy Scamper!!!
Down side was that was THE top for me...and in hindsight I shoulda just kept it, crooked tuner....so what...it had character....LOL
Can we start complaining about the prices yet?
It's only a matter of time. So why not?!
I think we will all remember the days where we say...."Damn, I remember the days you could get a custom reissue for $5k. Those were the days!"
But thats ok .... we got money to burn .... right Henry?
That needs more than a set up Vic. I will look at the Video again tonight in full but man that Bridge being high & low and action being high on both sides is a joke.
Let's assume we can fix it with a new Nut & a Set Up. Frankly I don't think it is right that people buy a new Gibson or any Guitar & need to do this.
The Guitar needs to be spot on ex the Factory apart from a minor action tweak to suit.
My Luthier mate in Sydney charges AUD4,500 for a Singlecut (not Replica). You get in house custom made PU's that are beyond awesome. You get Schaller & Tone Pros parts. You get high grade Wood that is taped & matched. You get impeccable workmanship that leaves Gibson for dead.
Now for the life of me why can't Gibson get the basics right, out of the box. We know they can, we've all had them. So why do we get good ones & dogs?
That is the key thing here which people keep forgetting.
The other thing in that Video is why does he have to go through so many Guitars to get one without issues.
Sure he might be fussy but you expect a certain level.
I'm sure the argument is just Ship them out & we'll address the issues later vs. let's get them all right & have loads of happy campers.
Funny that a US guy taught the Japanese about quality & improvement & a US Company doesn't get it.
Gibson dont throw out anything and no longer do factory seconds
They just keep sending out guitars they know have issues so eventually they end up in a beginners hands that dont realise the problems.
Exactly, I wonder who got the one I sent back.....
I can remember walking into Shirley's Music and having her hand me a '58 LP...
me: "how much?"
me: "for this old thing?"
her: the look
me: "here take this back before I hurt it!"
...those were the days. I just didn't know it...
Poorly finished or poorly setup brand new guitars as the one shown on the video are probably our fault. Or at least my fault. Why? Because more than often we don't complain. It's a players guitar, we say. It sounds good, so I'll fix it myself and won't bother complaining or returning it.
Maybe it's time we start complaining and returning guitars, so Gibson, Fender, and others will get serious about quality.
You're right, customers are to blame a lot. It is an established fact that buying a lower-end (that is, non-CS) Gibson guitar online is a lottery. Like you said, people buy them online, and then a lot of them don't bother going through the process of returning them and just fix them themselves. Meanwhile each shipped guitar counts as a sale for Gibson. So Gibson gets away with it. Even if they have to send a replacement guitar occasionally, they still have a sale. Whoever is responsible for sales at Gibson, wins, even if the company loses money on sending replacements.
If people, on the other hand, only bought Gibsons from physical stores, Gibson would have less sales due to these faults, and I'm pretty sure guitar shops would get involved more and return faulty guitars that no one's buying to Gibson, if customers bothered to point out flaws like those to guitar shops employees.
Gibson's QC won't change with people posting videos on Youtube and postings on forums. These videos and forum posts have been around for ages, and I didn't hear of any improvements on Gibson's QC side. The only way to change this is to stop giving Gibson easy sales sight unseen - sales that Gibson sales department doesn't have to work hard for. People should only pay for these guitars after establishing that the guitars in question do not have any issues.