2017 Custom Shop Les Paul Standard vs Historic Reissue

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by Andy California, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    So is 2017 Custom Shop Les Paul Standard a direct replacement for the Historic Reissue? How do they compare to each other? Is it more than just a name change? Have prices changed?

    I haven't really found many discussions about current models, except claims that Gibson don't have anything for 2017, even though these are on sale.

    Also, how do I tell if the guitar in question is the 2017 model or a Historic Reissue?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
  2. Crotch

    Crotch Delete My Account Entirely Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member

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    Its actually been discussed at length in many threads in this section. However some of them are up to 80+ pages :)

    Les Paul Standard is the replacement for the old Reissues
    Some have TH specs, some don't
    You'll need to look at the serial number for the year ex. 9 XXXX 0 XXXX 8 XXXX

    and ask a lot of questions to define what spec they have as all I have seen have been different. And some stores are doing "runs" in which they are picking the specs they want.
     
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  3. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    Thanks for replying, Crotch!

    I guess I wasn't patient enough to get to them :)

    Has it been established why they changed the name from Historic to Standard?

    I've found claims (by forum members) that most of these aren't actually newly-made guitars but rebranded unsold 2016 guitars. Has this been confirmed?


    And Historics would be R 9/8/0 XXXX?

    Are you referring to Made to Measure?

    Aside from "runs" made for shops, is the Gibson online catalogue a complete source for current specs? Or do they do more different specs than on the catalogue?
     
  4. PierM

    PierM Premium Member

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    For what I've seen around, the non M2M Custom Shop Standards, are most of the time Standards Historic builds, with True Historic plastics, and the price depends (as before) if they are 58 or 59 inspired.
     
  5. Crotch

    Crotch Delete My Account Entirely Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member

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    Has it been established why they changed the name from Historic to Standard?
    Cause Henry is a douche and fired Edwin

    I've found claims (by forum members) that most of these aren't actually newly-made guitars but rebranded unsold 2016 guitars. Has this been confirmed?
    It has happened but it certainly isn't anywhere near all of them.

    And Historics would be R 9/8/0 XXXX?
    Yes, same serial number format

    Are you referring to Made to Measure?
    Made to Measure you can get whatever you want

    Aside from "runs" made for shops, is the Gibson online catalogue a complete source for current specs? Or do they do more different specs than on the catalog?
    I haven't looked at their catalog so I can't answer that. As mentioned above, you're not going to see much difference from the 2014 spec guitars except for some TH plastics from what I can tell.
     
  6. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    Do you know, approximately, how much has the price increased for these compared to the 2014 spec Historics (which were the last non-True Historics, if I understand that right?)?

    And more seriously? :)
    By the way, does that mean you prefer the Historic Reissue name?
     
  7. PierM

    PierM Premium Member

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    The problem is there is not an official listing as well no official models so it's hard to compare since you don't know if you are comparing an orange with a banana.

    For what I can tell, looking around, but still trusting the specs on paper (and they can be really wrong), the price range is very similar with the previous one, with the disadvantage that now you really don't know if your guitar it's a 100% True Historic (hence higher price) or a Standard with some TH specs, priced like a True Historic, which would mean you are now paying more for less.

    It's really hard to tell and nobody knows.
     
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  8. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    Isn't this an official catalogue with model names and specs?
    http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-Custom.aspx?ModelYear=2017

    Do you mean you can find two guitars priced the same but one of them will actually be lower spec?
     
  9. PierM

    PierM Premium Member

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  10. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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  11. PierM

    PierM Premium Member

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  12. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    Why not? I mean, it's Custom Shop and it has Standard in its title...
     
  13. freebyrd 69

    freebyrd 69 Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    Your best answers are above. As mentioned before, this subject has been discussed at great length here. Search it if you want more specifics (or to be more confused, which is entirely possible).

    As Andy mentioned above, call a dealer if you want to order a M2M, and an explanation on that program. You can spec one out, but you'll pay.

    Best advice is, head to the member classifieds and buy a 13 or 14 R XXXXX and spend 1/2 of what you will to get a 17.
     
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  14. PierM

    PierM Premium Member

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    Before flooding this place with questions, you could spend few minutes to read what already discussed, in an almost 100 page thread. :)
     
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  15. freebyrd 69

    freebyrd 69 Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    I don't mean to be harsh, but C'MON MAN. If you are seriously asking that question, you need to go do some homework on the reissues rather than asking us questions.

    "Historics" were made to be as close in specs to the original guitars as possible. I don't recall seeing any vintage bursts with built in overdrive switches in the guitars.
     
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  16. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    I most definitely have. And, like freebyrd 69 said, I went away even more confused than before reading those lenghty threads. However, I admit, I got a annoyed by people complaining about the market being overflooded with CS guitars, CS guitars no longer being produced in extra limited numbers and wishing Gibson stopped making them altogether because "everyone has one", so I didn't bother reading it all to the end.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
  17. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    Alright, now I see what you mean.
     
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  18. freebyrd 69

    freebyrd 69 Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    There is no doubt is confusing. Again, the best, most concise answer to your question was answered by "crotch". He is a knowledgeable guy.

    Why don't you figure out what it is you are looking for and ask some questions then. My advice would be, stay away from the 16's and 17's. Asking the questions you have asked, I can only assume you don't own one of these guitars yet. Keep your eyes peeled for a 13 or 14 R8 or R9. They are the best bang for the buck with the newer specs. If you want the BEST value for the money, you will see older R7 Gold Tops listed here for under $2500. THAT'S the way to go for a player.
     
  19. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    That's correct, I don't own one. I live in the UK, and it seems like my options are really limited here. To be honest, I don't mind the guitar not havint TH specs. Regular Historic specs are perfectly fine for me. And as far as the price goes, I sort of accepted the fact that I'll have to massively overpay for the guitar simply because I live in Europe.

    Thank you, guys, for the answers. I have a better understanding of the current situation now.
     
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  20. Crotch

    Crotch Delete My Account Entirely Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member

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    It's a giant mess over there at the CS. So people bitching about it, especially those who have had a lot of these guitars over the years and enjoy them are mostly put off by the "new" scheme there.

    The truth of the matter is there really is no easy answer. Henry's goal was to do away with the reissues altogether. So the fact they have replaced some with these "standards" at least gives something to people. But there really isn't an official line so to speak. So you're not going to see many of these over seas I don't think (but don't know). Best bet is if you know something you want, and it has to be a 2017 I'd get a hold of one of our forum sponsors and see what they can do. If you want to do a M2M theres a few that can help you as well. Then you know EXACTLY what you are getting. Going used is probably your best bet.

    I will say that as much as I dislike what is going as a whole there the 2017 new guitar day threads have been beautiful. So just like the TH when that happened. I don't dislike the guitars, I dislike the idea.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
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