1980 Black Standard

Discussion in 'Norlin Years' started by tjdjr1, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. tjdjr1

    tjdjr1 Member

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    I recently got back a 80 LP Standard I got rid of years ago. The guitar remained in near mint condition except the pups were changed. I recently put in a Tonerider ACII in the bridge and found an old T-top for in the neck. The guitar is really bright sounding, so I put the of 300k pot back in the bridge volume, helped but is still a bright guitar. Were these typically a brighter variety ? I know the Tonerider isn't the best, but it does sound pretty good. I have swapped the T-top to the bridge and it is bright as well. Thanks for any replies..
     
  2. ARandall

    ARandall Senior Member

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    Any period guitar can be bright. But with a maple neck you can probably count on that era to have plenty of solid upper mids - my 80 Deluxe is not overly bright though even with mini's in.
     
  3. DarrellV

    DarrellV Likes > Posts Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    300's in the tone position too? Not just the volume...

    This would allow a bit more treble to roll off through the cap even wide open.

    You could experiment with the cap value too if needed.....

    Pickup height, pole piece balance....

    You didn't mention if the pups were covered. This would help a bit.

    My 82 with Shaws is very bright after being re -fretted.

    Before that with the low flat wide frets it had it was very mellow and dark.

    I find I have to use the tone knobs now and then to back off the snap, I've just gotten used to it.

    Maple neck and ebony board... Built like a tank. Maybe that's just what they do!


     
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  4. tjdjr1

    tjdjr1 Member

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    The pots are all 300k from what I can tell, they are all original to the guitar. I need a new cap on the tone for the bridge. I did have this guitar re-fretted once I got it back, so that could be some of the brightness. Thanks for the replies... I put an Alnico 2 magnet in a Dimarzio 223 reads about 8.7 ohm this did bring down some of the highs.
     
  5. DarrellV

    DarrellV Likes > Posts Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    OMG! It was night and day with mine after the re-fret!

    Clang and sparkle just while fretting a chord, let alone striking it.

    It has taken me months to adjust to it and learn to be comfortable playing it with its new sound, but that could just be me.

    Sounds like the same thing... I just turn my tonez down a notch now. I'm using the controls now when I am usually a wide open control guy.
     
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  6. scozz

    scozz Senior Member

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    You're right Darrell....the Shaws on my LP are a bit dark and very mellow ...and as you know, mine has the low, wide original frets yours had. You're also right about the maple neck, 3-piece maple actually...solid as a rock. I've had many guitars in my life but I have never felt such a rock solid neck as the 3-piece maple necks on these early to mid 80s LPs!!

    If you can see through the finish at the maple grain on them, you'll see that Gibson glued the maple strips running the grain in opposite directions. I read somewhere, back in the day, that this procedure would almost assure the neck would not move or warp virtually forever under normal circumstances.

    Thanks @DarrellV for bringing that information lost in the recesses of my fertile brain to the forefront of my fertile brain!! :D:D
     
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  7. DarrellV

    DarrellV Likes > Posts Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    You're welcome, as always! :cheers:

    Peavey made up a name for it in their T (for Todd) Series guitars. They called it a 'bi-laminated neck'. They made theirs from 2 pieces of rock Maple with grain running opposed for extra strength.

    But while their idea was heralded as revolutionary, Gibson's 3 ply maple laminate sucked because it was a Norlin cost cutting measure as a way to use up scraps....go figure! :dunno:

    You will be shocked at the difference if you ever re-fret. :wow:

    Dave at Sigl pickups concurs that Shaws are a bright pickup. I never understood why till the re-fret. I was complaining to him about the almost absurd difference in them compared to when I first got it.
     
  8. scozz

    scozz Senior Member

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    I’ thought about it many times, especially in the last couple of years. Before that l really loved them, I had wished that all my guitars had them. Now for some reason they don’t have the same appeal,

    I have to be a little more careful when playing this LP. I think Its uncomfortable for me to be touching the fingerboard so frequently as I do with these low frets. Also I have to concentrate, (more than I do with my other guitars),...when doing bends...mostly 1.5 and 2 step bends .

    Anyway, I got an estimate a few months ago from luthier that’s not to far from me. $375...no nibs!! :eek2:

    The LP sounds incredible now, so lm a little concerned about what you said about yours getting brighter.

    Are you completely satisfied with the new, brighter tone? Or does a small part of you miss the warm, slightly darker tone it had previously.

    Sorry if I hijacked yout thread OP...I didn’t mean to.
     
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  9. DarrellV

    DarrellV Likes > Posts Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    That's a good price, IMO. That's right around where mine was. No nibs, true, but on mine they were so far worn down with the low flats that it didn't much matter.
    Also on mine the low E was fairly close to the edge of the fret board, so the extra length of rail over the binding helped me a bit.

    He did mine so perfectly I don't even feel a difference with the nibs gone. Smoooooth!
    I have gotten used to it over time and playing it did help. They told me to expect it to be brighter right out of the gate, but it would subdue a bit as the crowns wore down a bit during playing. They have done that just a wee bit.

    Also, I play though a POD 400 HD so I just adjusted my tone on that as needed, no biggie.

    A big thing to consider here and for the OP too is strings. I found the D'Addirio's I was using too bright. I switched to Elixer after trying GHS. Pure nickle strings will be darker than stainless or even regular steel strings.

    And don't forget, that is what they had in the fifties before strings went all high tech.

    I think that having a brighter tone after the re-fret also brought out the sonic shortcomings in the potted Shaws.

    I was already aggravated by the knowledge that it had been done to them by some thoughtless slob before me, but now with the brighter response I could really notice it.
    Amateur home job. He even cooked the protective wrapping tape off the coils! Moron!
    The tone is solid, bell like and pure. They sound really good in the hi fi sense. They have a quality sound to them that I like. But its like a brick... There are no aural space filling overtones or air about it.

    By being solid in tone they lack the breathy spacious timbre and overtones I'm am looking to hear.

    Best I can think of is the difference between hitting an iron pipe and letting it ring.... then listen to a finely made cathedral bell with all of its overtones swirling around with and around the fundamental. Very space filling.
     
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  10. tjdjr1

    tjdjr1 Member

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    I am not sure the tone pot values for 1980, but all the pots are original to the guitar. The cap for the bridge tone is bad so I stole the cap from the neck tone it's a 47. When I got the guitar back I took out an old Duncan distortion and a push pull coil tap and put the original pot and tonerider p'up in. All the way up it is okay,, but when I turn down 1/3 of the way the high end starts coming on strong. I put in a new treble bleed that is better than the .001 cap, I used a 24K resistor with a 560pF in line for the bleed. Going to put covers back on something to help curb it.. thanks for the replies..
     
  11. ARandall

    ARandall Senior Member

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    If you have a treble bleed its no wonder its bright.....those things are an abomination.
     
  12. tjdjr1

    tjdjr1 Member

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    I have treble bleed on 3 others and they perfect for me. Treble bleeds can be useful at least for what I do and not all treble bleeds are created equal they can be tuned with different value caps and resistors.
     

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